Klipsch Heritage Jubilee vs. Underground Jubilee Upgrade

[mikebse2a3]

2 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

Yes, that's true.  However, there is a about 20 dB gain difference across the frequency range of the HF settings from its lowest to highest points.  it's just implemented as both cuts and boosts.

 

My point was that to say it needs a 20db of boost per the previous posts I copied is incorrect and should not be how someone looks at the requirements.

 

I corrected myself and it is a 17db window of adjustments with a maximum boost of +6db.

 

As I stated previously Chris’s settings includes a maximum boost of (+6db @ 18kHz) and a maximum cut of (-11db @ 600Hz).

 

miketn🙂

 

 

 

[Marvel]

True, the majority of adjustment would be bringing it down to match the woofer output. Cutting is always better than boosting.

[Islander]

On 2/9/2023 at 12:19 PM, Quad Khorns said:

Did you ever get your question answered ... or figure it out yourself?

 

It seems to me that the more capable tweeter would be the better choice, since it would be more likely to be operating in its most linear range.  Since it would be operating with less strain, it would be more likely to be able to provide accurate reproduction of the signal it gets.

[grendel23]

13 hours ago, Islander said:

 

It seems to me that the more capable tweeter would be the better choice, since it would be more likely to be operating in its most linear range.  Since it would be operating with less strain, it would be more likely to be able to provide accurate reproduction of the signal it gets.

Before I bought AXI2050s I was running 3 way using DE10s with LMAHLs for high frequencies. These sounded very good.

Once I put the Celestion drivers on my K-402s, I went to two way. The AXI2050s sounded better to me.

[diamonddelts]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:44 AM, grendel23 said:

Before I bought AXI2050s I was running 3 way using DE10s with LMAHLs for high frequencies. These sounded very good.

Once I put the Celestion drivers on my K-402s, I went to two way. The AXI2050s sounded better to me.

Thank you for your comment. 

[diamonddelts]

Well I've been travelling around to 3 states over the last month. During my travels I had a chance to hear Underground 2 way Jubilees, 3 way 535 Jubilees(full stock from Klipsch), and the new Heritage Jubilees. With that being said here are my thoughts:

 

The older 2 way UG Jubilees were impressive on their own. But after hearing the new Heritage Jubilees, I could definitely hear improvements in the hf extension, low mids, upper mids, and especially in the lower bass frequencies. The low bass without any subs on the new Heritage Jubilees is amazing with two channel music.  The higher frequencies seemed much less bright and more refined with the Heritage Jubilees. The overall sound of the Heritage Jubilees is more cohesive from the top down.

 

I figured this would be case before I got started with this trek. But what I did not account for is the HF prominence with the 3 way Jubilees using the 510 horns. The treble seems more pronounced and easier to hear distinctions on certain tracks. 

 

My takeaway from this is I would really like to see a double blind listening test set up between the three models. As for me personally I must admit I much prefer the more distinct HF of the 3 way model. If I could get a custom 3 way Heritage Jubilee I would be all for it.  Now before anyone throws insults my way or thinks I am speaking from a place of jealousy please keep in mind my wife and I are in the process of selling four homes. 

 

So lack of funds is not a issue for me at this time. I am simply being honest about my impressions of the aforementioned three models. 

 

[MMurg]

4 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

Well I've been travelling around to 3 states over the last month. During my travels I had a chance to hear Underground 2 way Jubilees, 3 way 535 Jubilees(full stock from Klipsch), and the new Heritage Jubilees. With that being said here are my thoughts:

 

The older 2 way UG Jubilees were impressive on their own. But after hearing the new Heritage Jubilees, I could definitely hear improvements in the low mids, upper mids, and especially in the lower bass frequencies. The low bass without any subs on the new Heritage Jubilees is amazing with two channel music.  The higher frequencies seemed much less bright and more refined with the Heritage Jubilees. The overall sound of the Heritage Jubilees is more cohesive from the top down.

 

I figured this would be case before I got started with this trek. But what I did not account for is the HF prominence with the 3 way Jubilees using the 510 horns. The treble seems more pronounced and easier to hear distinctions on certain tracks. 

 

My takeaway from this is I would really like to see a double blind listening test set up between the three models. As for me personally I must admit I much prefer the more distinct HF of the 3 way model. If I could get a custom 3 way Heritage Jubilee I would be all for it.  Now before anyone throws insults my way or thinks I am speaking from a place of jealousy please keep in mind my wife an I are in the process of selling four homes. 

 

So lack of funds is not a issue for me at this time. I am simply being honest about my impressions of the aforementioned three models. 

 

 

I've never heard the 3-way cinema configuration of the UG Jubilee.  However, I was lucky enough to hear the 2-way UG Jubilee and the Heritage Jubilee in the same room.  This was in the Klipsch lab listening room in Hope.  The Jubilees were setup by Roy himself.  My experience of the HF performance difference between them does not match with your experience.  In fact, it's the opposite.  During that mono side by side, I thought the Heritage Jubilee had much better high-end extension and clarity than the 2-way UG Jubilee.  The same HF performance is what I experience with the Heritage Jubilee in my living room too.  I even measured the response at 1m on axis of the K-402 and at the listening position in my room.  The HF response is almost ruler flat out past 20 KHz.  I'm wondering if something was amiss in the Heritage Jubilee setup that you heard.

[Travis In Austin]

3 hours ago, diamonddelts said:

My takeaway from this is I would really like to see a double blind listening test set up between the three models. As for me personally I must admit I much prefer the more distinct HF of the 3 way model. If I could get a custom 3 way Heritage Jubilee I would be all for it.  Now before anyone throws insults my way or thinks I am speaking from a place of jealousy please keep in mind my wife an I are in the process of selling four homes. 

Who would set up the double blind tests of the 3 models? Or even two models - UG and Heritage? Klipsch isn’t going to do it, compare a new speaker to one that is discontinued.  
 

You might be able to set it up with one speaker of each (mono) but it would be pretty much physically impossible to compare DBT in stereo. You have to be able to switch between each speaker in 4 seconds or less to be of any significance in blind testing. 

[KT88]

I haven't heard the Heritage Jubilee yet, I own the UJ since 15 years combined with K402/ TAD 4002. But I blindly believe that a speaker that goes more than an octave lower produces a different, fuller and more intense sound experience. 
As for the high frequency differences between HJ and UJ described by various posters here, I think there could be several influences. First, did both speakers have the same drivers in the respective comparison, e.g. in Hope? And even then, it is a difference due to the use of Roy's second phaseplug in the HJ. Then there is the fact that even the same K402 with exactly everything the same, phase plugs, drivers, everything, can still cause a different sound impression when the bass reaches much lower. In the end, we always hear a holistic sound that is added together by given parameters.
Regarding the three-way constellation. I know the K510 and it sounds very good on its own. But with three ways you destroy the most important goal that PWK had...the most point-like sound source of the Jubilee two-way system. Three way only works at a greater distance than any private listening room. But when you sit so far away we are no longer talking about hifi but about public address like in the cinema. So more sound pressure and less nuances through this kind of setting.

[diamonddelts]

10 hours ago, KT88 said:

I haven't heard the Heritage Jubilee yet, I own the UJ since 15 years combined with K402/ TAD 4002. But I blindly believe that a speaker that goes more than an octave lower produces a different, fuller and more intense sound experience. 
As for the high frequency differences between HJ and UJ described by various posters here, I think there could be several influences. First, did both speakers have the same drivers in the respective comparison, e.g. in Hope? And even then, it is a difference due to the use of Roy's second phaseplug in the HJ. Then there is the fact that even the same K402 with exactly everything the same, phase plugs, drivers, everything, can still cause a different sound impression when the bass reaches much lower. In the end, we always hear a holistic sound that is added together by given parameters.
Regarding the three-way constellation. I know the K510 and it sounds very good on its own. But with three ways you destroy the most important goal that PWK had...the most point-like sound source of the Jubilee two-way system. Three way only works at a greater distance than any private listening room. But when you sit so far away we are no longer talking about hifi but about public address like in the cinema. So more sound pressure and less nuances through this kind of setting.

Understood but I might be using my speakers in a large room. And I also use them for home theater as well. With that being said, I definitely agree about speakers which can dig lower. I prefer large speakers which can get down below 40hz with authority. It's the reason why I previously owned JTR 215 speakers and Cerwin Vega CLR 215 amongst others. There is a special cohesiveness with a speaker which can dig low without the help of subs for 2 channel music.

 

The Heritage Jubilees lower mids and upper/lower bass were astoundingly good. And their hf was smooth and refined. They have a cohesive sound which does come together in a fairly short distance and does not sound constrained or raspy like other horn loaded speakers I've heard in the past. I have nothing but compliments for what I heard with the Heritage Jubes. 

 

They are well worth their price tag. And I appreciate they are an all in one package with preprogrammed active crossover included. They are much better than any of the high priced horn speakers I've previously owned. And that includes a Danley setup which cost me quite a bit of coin.

[diamonddelts]

On 6/10/2023 at 10:23 PM, Travis In Austin said:

Who would set up the double blind tests of the 3 models? Or even two models - UG and Heritage? Klipsch isn’t going to do it, compare a new speaker to one that is discontinued.  
 

You might be able to set it up with one speaker of each (mono) but it would be pretty much physically impossible to compare DBT in stereo. You have to be able to switch between each speaker in 4 seconds or less to be of any significance in blind testing. 

It was just a passing thought. Even with a double blind listening test, certain members here would still find numerous ways to argue and tear it down. I would not waste any real time attempting such an endeavor. 

[diamonddelts]

Well I missed a short window to pay cash for the new Heritage Jubilees due to being in the middle of multiple moves. So I've decided to use lemons to make lemonade for the moment. I purchased a pair of Celestion Axi 2050s today. I also purchased a QSC RMX 5050a. Gonna play around with the amp and my 3 way passive crossovers for a bit. 

 

I got pricing for the Xilica XP 4080 yesterday. Depending on what I hear this week, I will most likely get the Xilica XP 4080 and try going active in a few weeks to experiment. If so, I will get a two smaller amps for a bi amp setup. Will also purchase some custom grill covers for the 402s to pretty them up a bit. 

[diamonddelts]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:44 AM, grendel23 said:

Before I bought AXI2050s I was running 3 way using DE10s with LMAHLs for high frequencies. These sounded very good.

Once I put the Celestion drivers on my K-402s, I went to two way. The AXI2050s sounded better to me.

This post has gotten my full attention. 

[billybob]

Well, that may  be unfortunate but we tried. Meanwhile, back to what you have said.

How, and why do your set sound to you t this moment as is?

Please ignore me as they know.

Thanks!

[billybob]

With passives  no reason can see for not having an UJ outside, I mean dang.

[diamonddelts]

1 hour ago, billybob said:

Well, that may  be unfortunate but we tried. Meanwhile, back to what you have said.

How, and why do your set sound to you t this moment as is?

Please ignore me as they know.

Thanks!

Hi billybob. I personally feel my speakers(don't know what to call them anymore) sound very good at the moment. I am very, very happy with the midrange. Their bass is light and tight which I appreciate because I am not a bass head. Their HF is a little hot due to the passive 3 way crossovers which were meant for cinema use. I have an onboard eq setting which tames the highs a bit. 

 

But I often find myself turning the eq off. I must admit I like my treble a bit hot. They give very good definition with most of the songs I listen to. My family says they are the best speakers I've ever owned audio wise which is saying alot because I've owned over sixty speakers and subs. 

 

The KT-1133 HP cds are great midrange drivers. But my gut feeling tells me the K-691 can be improved upon. I also get an itch anytime I hear a new model of what I own has been released. It's a sickness I suffer from with everything from bodybuilding equipment to home theater equipment. I have no real reason to do as many upgrade attempts as I do across a plethora of hobbies. I just do them out of pure curiosity and love of the journey. 

[billybob]

Thanks! Enjoy the journey!

 

 

[Travis In Austin]

31 minutes ago, diamonddelts said:

It was just a passing thought. Even with a double blind listening test, certain members here would still find numerous ways to argue and tear it down. I would not waste any real time attempting such an endeavor. 

I would love to see it happen, regardless of who did it. it just would be so difficult to do.

[Islander]

On 6/10/2023 at 8:22 PM, MMurg said:

 

I've never heard the 3-way cinema configuration of the UG Jubilee.  However, I was lucky enough to hear the 2-way UG Jubilee and the Heritage Jubilee in the same room.  This was in the Klipsch lab listening room in Hope.  The Jubilees were setup by Roy himself.  My experience of the HF performance difference between them does not match with your experience.  In fact, it's the opposite.  During that mono side by side, I thought the Heritage Jubilee had much better high-end extension and clarity than the 2-way UG Jubilee.  The same HF performance is what I experience with the Heritage Jubilee in my living room too.  I even measured the response at 1m on axis of the K-402 and at the listening position in my room.  The HF response is almost ruler flat out past 20 KHz.  I'm wondering if something was amiss in the Heritage Jubilee setup that you heard.

 

Both Spaceships Jubilee, with Roy at the helm.  You can't beat that.  Wish I'd been there.

[OilyBoy]

Hi guys i have been away from the forum for a while.

Wow what an interresting thread. 

 

I have installed my Jubs in 2way, with Faital HF20AT drivers on the 402`s.

installed 2 Tuba Home Theatre Low Profile subs i bought from forum member Wim in Belgium.

 

then, Craig came over from Houston TX to The Netherlands last december and tuned the whole system.

 

For the HF section i stept away from tubes to give a First Watt J2 a try. (Craig uses the same amp and i found one for sale in NL) so i bought it and do not regret it.  

for the LF and SUBs i use 4 Crown K2 amps. i run these as monoblocks in the bridged mode.

preamp is a Mcintosh MC220 and my source for now is an Cambrigde CXN V2 streamer on which i use Qobuz.

 

now offcourse i am very curious to the sound of the herritage Jubilee and i can audition at two shops whitin 1.5/2 hours driving. i have not been listening yet, on purpose because i first wanted to get used to the sound of my own setup.

 

i dont think i will ever buy a herritage pair since i love my system and they are installed in "the chruch" which is my mancave. offcourse i prefer the looks of the Herritage but it is not my living room so i wont pay an extra 30k for looks.

i will give them a listen some day in the near future and share my opinion. and offcourse i will follow this thread since i am very curious in the tunability to bring the performance (if the difference is big) close(r) to the performance of the undergroud jubilee.

 

is Chris still active on this forum btw? i send him a message a couple of months ago but he did not reply, and also i dont see his name pop up in this thread. usually he is/was the beacon of knowledge in this kind of discussions.

Edited November 2, 2023 by OilyBoy