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PrimaLuna compared to Decware


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7 hours ago, richieb said:

Can’t imagine many, if any similarities between a low power single ended amp and a much more powerful push pull. I’ve had them all 

and there is really nothing to compare between the designs. For me it’s an 🍎/ 🍊 comparison. 

I think like you, not fair comparison. Big difference in sound, for me, between SE and PP. Preference depend on preferred music and environment. I like and enjoy them both but my preference for my music taste leans towards SE. That and the Prima is a much more expensive amp. The little Zen, I assume this is the one being discussed, is what it is. An American built SE tube amplifier built at the cheapest cost using decent parts. For me, not a lot of difference between a PP tube amp and a good SS PP amp. 

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My EVO 400 in Triode mode sorta gets me to the single ended sound..I have been switching back and forth between my Naim amplifier, Aric amplifier (borrowed from a friend) and my PrimaLuna EVO 400. After a hour or so I always end with the PrimaLuna. Something about the sound calls to me….I just tap my foot when it plays.

I found an old Phase Linear 400 in my attic I bought new in the old days. That didn’t last long hooked up lol

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18 hours ago, richieb said:

Can’t imagine many, if any similarities between a low power single ended amp and a much more powerful push pull. I’ve had them all 

and there is really nothing to compare between the designs. For me it’s an 🍎/ 🍊 comparison. 

 

Please share your listening experiences. Would like to hear what you have to say. 

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10 hours ago, henry4841 said:

. For me, not a lot of difference between a PP tube amp and a good SS PP amp. 

- Absolutely - we do think alike. I occasionally think of buying another single ended with volume control because of their overall goodness, there’s really nothing like ‘em. But with owing a couple FW amps and Benchmarks I have little interest in a push pull, UL or pseudo triode tube configuration. 

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On 1/29/2023 at 8:53 PM, Idontknow said:

Decware just raised the price of the UFO up another $200. It all started after the videos were posted. 

 

Another $200?

It was $995 for a long time and just like a lot of other things the cost to produce it has gone up.

 

What (all) started after the videos?

The crazy long wait list and subsequent increase in price of used gear are the only things that have really changed.

 

Quite some time ago I suggested (on their forum) that a significant price increase, especially on the lower priced amplifiers, would benefit them in many ways. As mentioned above, Steve just raised the prices to offset the increased cost of parts and labor.

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When Thomas Stereo, Steve Guttenberg and Andrew Robinson started comparing the entry level Zen and touting its sound as good or better than integrated amplifiers costing $10,000, that's when sales for Decware went through the roof. That is why people are selling them for more than they paid. It got so ridiculous when I tried selling mine that I had to make a video telling people to chill out. It isn't everything it's cooked up to be and waiting more than a year is absolutely absurd in this day and era. 

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Over hyped is the term I would use. There are schematics out there of the circuit and believe me nothing special in it. Decent parts and reputable dealer make it desirable for someone wanting to experience the SET sound but do not expect anything earth shaking over the many other SET amplifiers out there. I built the Zen from the available schematic that use to be on their website many years ago. To my ears Maynard's Little Sweetie outshines it. That is not to say anything wrong with Zen, just as good or better out there. 

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33 minutes ago, Idontknow said:

When Thomas Stereo, Steve Guttenberg and Andrew Robinson started comparing the entry level Zen and touting its sound as good or better than integrated amplifiers costing $10,000, that's when sales for Decware went through the roof. That is why people are selling them for more than they paid. It got so ridiculous when I tried selling mine that I had to make a video telling people to chill out. It isn't everything it's cooked up to be and waiting more than a year is absolutely absurd in this day and era. 

The internet and social media create crazy hype. Add Utube Audio Reviewers to the growing number of hyped bs and prices escalate faster than the rate of inflation. Look at crypto, Klipsch heritage speaker hype and prices soaring like CRAZY. People see a hyped Utube video about $150,000 speakers and people actually think that is something reasonable. WTH? The power of internet hype is everywhere.

 

Klipsch speakers are great but the Utube hype the past few years have pushed prices of old Heritage and new Heritage speakers to record highs. Why should Amplifier hype be any different.  My wife informed me that those $150,000 Wilson’s would not be my next “must have” speakers no matter how good the Utube reviews are.

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That is crazy, wonder where the money goes???

A recently retired long time Decware employee is building them for something to do when he is bored.

 

FWIW I have owned a lot of Decware amps over the years and I have sold all of them, never seemed to keep them very long.

They were all pretty good sounding amplifiers, but I have had a lot of other amps that were just as good IMO.

I just sold an original Taboo - EL84/6BQ5 SEP - a very good 4~5 watt amp, but I didn't have a use for it.

The new owner is very happy with it.

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16 hours ago, Silverfoxvtx1800 said:

The Decware auction is over and it was crazy at the last couple minutes. I don’t know if the winner made a mistake, it went for crazy money..

FA35E1B2-742B-46D0-8BB0-EF37564561EC.jpeg

These guys are absurd. They just get caught up in the bids. It's like a gambling addiction. I've seen this happen where people bid higher than the item is new and readily available.  

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Enjoying this thread.  I have never considered Decware although I have read and heard good things about them.  

 

I have 2 set-ups that I run on my Belles which I think are end game.   Both are sourced by an Oppo 203 and use an SVS 2x12 1000 wpc sub.   The first uses a PrimaLuna Dialogue Preamp and a First Watt SIT-3 amp (18 wpc, Class A, single ended).  The PL + the SIT-3 combo approaches the midrange smoothness of an all tube system.  Credit to the quality focus of the PL team and Nelsen Pass' amp design.

 

My second setup uses a CAD-300 SEI integrated amp from Cary Audio (this was designed when Dennis Had still owned Cary).  I upgraded the power tubes to Western Electric 300B's last year from WE's relatively new factory in Georgia.  After 6 mos of tube burn-in this 15wpc SET amp really brings the best out of the Belles.  Super smooth mids and highly resolving top end.   The imaging is so impressive. 

 

This is Zen for me! 

 

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5 hours ago, whiteknee said:

Enjoying this thread.  I have never considered Decware although I have read and heard good things about them.  

 

I have 2 set-ups that I run on my Belles which I think are end game.   Both are sourced by an Oppo 203 and use an SVS 2x12 1000 wpc sub.   The first uses a PrimaLuna Dialogue Preamp and a First Watt SIT-3 amp (18 wpc, Class A, single ended).  The PL + the SIT-3 combo approaches the midrange smoothness of an all tube system.  Credit to the quality focus of the PL team and Nelsen Pass' amp design.

 

My second setup uses a CAD-300 SEI integrated amp from Cary Audio (this was designed when Dennis Had still owned Cary).  I upgraded the power tubes to Western Electric 300B's last year from WE's relatively new factory in Georgia.  After 6 mos of tube burn-in this 15wpc SET amp really brings the best out of the Belles.  Super smooth mids and highly resolving top end.   The imaging is so impressive. 

 

This is Zen for me! 

 

I have a question in the Cary Cad. How did the designer get 15 watts in a non parallel SET?

Thanks.. CCG

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3 hours ago, whiteknee said:

I'm not an electrical engineer so you'll have to ask the crew at Cary Audio or Dennis Had.  Attached is the owner's manual.

CAD-300SEI_manual.pdf 984.51 kB · 2 downloads

Just wondering though what is important is you love the sound. That model had been praise by alot of people I know that has attention to detail. Congrats! 

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10 hours ago, CCG said:

I have a question in the Cary Cad. How did the designer get 15 watts in a non parallel SET?

Thanks.. CCG

Not sure on that claim but Roger Modjeski got 40 watts out of the little EL84 tubes by increasing the B+ and running less current. Like 700V's on those EL84 plates. The higher the voltage the more you have to swing the signal in. 

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