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PrimaLuna compared to Decware


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We are on page 3 (almost on page 2 now) on the waiting list at Decware. We have a 1996 pair of ChorusII's to check this out with. Not many outfits making tube gear, especially in the states that come even close to what we could afford. I'll send a note when it arrives (sometime in summer) ..If I am still above the ground that is....😉 Take care all  ~Mike

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7 hours ago, henry4841 said:

Not sure on that claim but Roger Modjeski got 40 watts out of the little EL84 tubes by increasing the B+ and running less current. Like 700V's on those EL84 plates. The higher the voltage the more you have to swing the signal in. 

Definitely you can raise the voltage but It also affects the tube life which of course you dont want to do. 

I have a custom made 32/50 switchable watt tube amp. Since I insisted on maxing the top end, I was warned by the designer about using the 50 watts which roughly decreases the tube life.

100 % Max Safe Dissipation = 87%

Most of the new made tubes (Not the NOS) when it hits the tube life of 82-85%, the sound is deteriorating and can be obvious not like the vintage ones especially the mullard daystrom that I used and was built all the way from the 50's. Surprisingly that tube can sing even in its last 10% life. 😺

Back to the Primaluna. I think they are wonder amps. for the money theyre asking atleast when I bought the prologue classic, its very hard to match the sound of a mini amp thats built and weights like a tank. For $1,800 that I paid for, I can switch from EL34 to KT-120 of I want power and music. But these amps are powerful enough as it is. 

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1 hour ago, CCG said:

Definitely you can raise the voltage but It also affects the tube life which of course you dont want to do. 

I have a custom made 32/50 switchable watt tube amp. Since I insisted on maxing the top end, I was warned by the designer about using the 50 watts which roughly decreases the tube life.

100 % Max Safe Dissipation = 87%

 

You will not lower the life of the tube if you use a high B+ voltage if you lower the current running through the tube. It is a misconception that tube life will be effected. One has to be careful of the screen voltage to accomplish this though. The wattage rating of the tube is the number you have to watch if you do not want to shorten tube life. Modjeski designed amplifiers have long tube life and seldom need replacing. Working just from my memory he got 35 or 40 watts running 15ma with 720 V's on EL84 tubes in PP on his RM10. At least I believe it was the RM10.

 

Give this some thought and you will see Modjeski was right. The guy taught electronics at Stanford so I would say he knew what he was doing. If you want to learn more about Modjeski this video is outstanding.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io_yZENYlxY&t=8s

 

Start at the 28.14 mark for discussion on how he did it.  

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Just thought I would add that it took me years to come around to all what Roger was talking about at the BAF 2015. I watched it in 2015 as I do most all the presenters at the BAF held every year. It comes down to the voltage you have to swing the sinusoidal signal in. Most all know what a sinusoidal signal looks like with a positive and negative swing. You can swing a lot more sinusoidal in 600v's than say 200V's where most PP EL84 amps have to work in. You are going to drop approximately 50V's across an output tube so in a PP amplifier you are going to lose 100V's of your B+ across the output tubes. When you start out at 700V's you have 600V's left to swing a signal in. A normal PP EL84 uses roughly 300V's B+ and you are left with 200V's to swing the signal in after the loss in the output tubes. That is how Roger got so much power out of EL84 tubes without shorting tube life. The watts used by the tubes are the same being a normal PP EL84 runs more current. The EL84 is rated for app 12 to 12.5 watts and as long as you only use 80% of that number you will not harm the tube life. Roger runs his output tubes at app 10.5 watts in his RM10 for 35W to 40W power on the outputs. The man was a genius in amplifier design. Wound his own transformers as well. 

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16 hours ago, CCG said:

Definitely you can raise the voltage but It also affects the tube life which of course you dont want to do. 

I have a custom made 32/50 switchable watt tube amp. Since I insisted on maxing the top end, I was warned by the designer about using the 50 watts which roughly decreases the tube life.

100 % Max Safe Dissipation = 87%

Most of the new made tubes (Not the NOS) when it hits the tube life of 82-85%, the sound is deteriorating and can be obvious not like the vintage ones especially the mullard daystrom that I used and was built all the way from the 50's. Surprisingly that tube can sing even in its last 10% life. 😺

Back to the Primaluna. I think they are wonder amps. for the money theyre asking atleast when I bought the prologue classic, its very hard to match the sound of a mini amp thats built and weights like a tank. For $1,800 that I paid for, I can switch from EL34 to KT-120 of I want power and music. But these amps are powerful enough as it is. 

Just wanted to say welcome to the tube section. We need more new members like yourself posting on Maynard's tube section. Nice seeing new members participating. Tubes still rule when it comes to sound. 

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On 1/31/2023 at 8:05 PM, Silverfoxvtx1800 said:

The Decware auction is over and it was crazy at the last couple minutes. I don’t know if the winner made a mistake, it went for crazy money..

FA35E1B2-742B-46D0-8BB0-EF37564561EC.jpeg

 

FWIW It ended up going for $2500, still crazy (IMO) to pay double retail for a "special" paint job.

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Just read through this thread and really appreciate the knowledge and experience that is being shared regarding tube gear. Has anyone compared the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III to the Primaluna EVO 400? Any direct experience? I have a CMIII but all of the hype surrounding the Primaluna EVO 400 has me curious as to the potential differences between them. 

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1 hour ago, Peacemaker said:

Just read through this thread and really appreciate the knowledge and experience that is being shared regarding tube gear. Has anyone compared the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III to the Primaluna EVO 400? Any direct experience? I have a CMIII but all of the hype surrounding the Primaluna EVO 400 has me curious as to the potential differences between them. 

I traded in my McIntosh hybrid integrated MA252 after hearing the EVO400. The EVO400 was the first all tube amp I had ever listened to and I was hooked. I have no idea if there might be better all tube integrated amps out there. I’m always curious about other amps but not enough to spend my hard earned $$$$ to compare other amps. I am certain there are many great audio products I will never get to hear in my space with my systems gear. I also assume there could be a better sounding amp than my EVO400. I will just let others scratch that Itch and enjoy their curiosity being satisfied. I’d like to read their findings. Meanwhile I’ll enjoy the music coming thru my Forte IVs and the evo400

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I start my PrimaLuna EVO 400 every morning after a cup of coffee and shut it down around 4 or 5 and watch TV.  After it’s off I wonder what another amp would sound like, cruising the used adds or auctions on EBay…every morning after the EVO 400 warms up even with the stock tubes that urge goes away…

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5 minutes ago, Silverfoxvtx1800 said:

I wonder what another amp would sound like

Yup, ya do but all I can do is enjoy my PL gear.  You can always dig deeper into that wallet and go but that depth to go there?  Better have some deep pockets.  lol

 

Gotta find that audiophile banker who understands it.  That's the secret AND the good side of it all.  The bad side?  When you're listening to a boom box and KNOW your gear is sitting in HIS living room!    :)

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18 hours ago, Silverfoxvtx1800 said:

I start my PrimaLuna EVO 400 every morning after a cup of coffee and shut it down around 4 or 5 and watch TV.  After it’s off I wonder what another amp would sound like, cruising the used adds or auctions on EBay…every morning after the EVO 400 warms up even with the stock tubes that urge goes away…

The stock EL34 tubes sound really good. Primaluna makes tube rolling so easy you can easily change the sound of the amp by rolling in other tubes like I did with the kt150s.


One great feature of the EVO400 is home theatre bypass making it so easy to go from 2 Chanel listening on the EVO400 to adding my AVR for TV listening. Many integrated amps do not have that feature.

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17 minutes ago, Fido said:

The stock EL34 tubes sound really good. Primaluna makes tube rolling so easy you can easily change the sound of the amp by rolling in other tubes like I did with the kt150s.

Are you saying you can change the bias in this amplifier easy enough to run KT150's? If so that is a nice touch. 

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22 minutes ago, henry4841 said:

Are you saying you can change the bias in this amplifier easy enough to run KT150's? If so that is a nice touch. 

Yes the EVO400 has auto bias and you can just plug in different tubes, flip a switch and the amp adjusts automatically. Primaluna has many nice features.

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