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DECWARE SE84UFO REVIEW


artto

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DECWARE SE84UFO (INITIAL) REVIEW

(EDIT: Just for reference my SE84UFO have the Level 2 copper foil 25th Anniversary upgrade)

 

After a 1.5 YEAR wait, I finally received my SE84UFO (AND, a free “Decware One Year Club T-Shirt!!!!).

 

Actually. I bought two with the intention of using them as mono blocks for increased headroom.

 

Initially I’m just using one SE84UFO as a stereo amp. The amp was warmed up for 1.5 hours before listening. The initial listening session was 1.5 hours.

 

My initial impressions are very good. This is a very listenable amplifier. The bass integrates with my subs much better than other SET amps I have used. It also seems to be exposing some details in the transients, and ambience I hadn’t noticed before. For instance, the initial sound of a percussion mallet hitting a large drum, and then the way the sound of the instrument decays, separately from the ambience of the hall. Tingling Triangles and wood blocks are right there in space, very present – same thing – how the initial transient sounds from the space around it. And certain “inner” articulation on voices I’m not sure I’ve heard before.

 

I have no idea if these amps need a so-called “break-in period”. Personally, I’m not a purveyor of that but like to keep an open mind.

 

I’ll be posting more on this as the listening sessions move on.

 

Recordings used, all streaming hi-res from Tidal:

 

Sophia Gubaidulina ~ Lahti Chamber Ensemble, Concerto for Bassoon and Low Strings. BIS 636

Sophia Gubaidulina ~ Glorious Percussion, Lucerne Symphony Orchestra. BIS 1752

John Cage ~ Three Constructions, The Donald Knaack Percussion Ensemble. Tomato 2696172

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Really appreciate your post on this here! Ours is on the 'list' at about #412 (top of page 3). Maybe this summer sometime I guess. Some incentive to not bump my stupid head anymore..along with other things too of course?) Will have this attached to Chorus'II's. We do not have a system like yours at all!! Has got to be unreal...😍. Please update again on this. Awesome!  ~Mike

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32 minutes ago, Mikekid said:

Really appreciate your post on this here! Ours is on the 'list' at about #412 (top of page 3). Maybe this summer sometime I guess. Some incentive to not bump my stupid head anymore..along with other things too of course?) Will have this attached to Chorus'II's. We do not have a system like yours at all!! Has got to be unreal...😍. Please update again on this. Awesome!  ~Mike

Thanks Mike. Made me smile.....actually IMHO it's much closer to "REAL".

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I built a pair of the se 84 kits several years ago, and used them bridged as monoblocks. I know the kits don't compare to the real thing, but I was overall impressed with the little things. They're packed away in a box somewhere, maybe I will dig them back out.

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I have wondered about a Decware amp for years, nearly pulled the trigger many times, never did until this week. Found a 

Torii mk. iv and snapped it up. They don’t last long at all when for sale and if I don’t care for it, it will sell quickly. I admire those who wait a year and a half+ for a new build - enjoy the Dec.

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Last night I listened to:

 

WDCB.org “The Real Deal” with Orbert Davis (jazz) streaming radio (MP3 44.1Khz/128mbps).

 

Tidal hi-res streaming Dr. John ~ “Gris Gris Gumbo Ya Ya/Mama Roux/I Walk on Gilded Splinters” from The Night Tripper Gris Gris. ATCO

 

Sonny Rollins ~ “I’m an Old Cowhand” & “Solitude” from Way Out West. Contemporary Records

 

Miles Davis ~ “So What” from Kind of Blue. Columbia

 

Blind Faith ~ “Had To Cry Today” & Sea of Joy” from Blind Faith. Polydor

 

Again, pretty much a repeat of my initial impressions. This is a very well balanced sounding amplifier. Nothing is poking me in the eye so to speak. All of the above were very pleasurable to listen to.

 

There seem to be certain inner details of instruments and the ambience of spaces the music was recorded in that comes through with more delineation. I’m not making direct back & forth comparisons with my usual setup right now, just from memory. For now these are all long term listening tests. I’ll switch back in several weeks or maybe even a month or two.

 

The bass on these amps is much better than the 2A3, 300B & EL34 SET amps I’ve used. Firm, full, deep, nothing bloated or ill defined. The midrange comes so very close to that 300B “magic” but not quite equaling it. OTOH it’s overall sound is much more revealing from top to bottom and nothing is popping out as “better” or worse (like 300B big but bloated bass in exchange for a narrow band of midrange glory).

 

I was kind of surprised I didn’t run into any headroom issues on the Blind Faith album. I wasn’t playing it ear splitting loud (94dB). Nothing got harsh or edgy. The low end didn’t need any bump or cut. Everything took on that sort of “organic” quality.

 

However, I haven’t put this through the acid tests yet. For that I will be using Roger Waters ~ “Amused to Death”, Peter Gabriel ~ “Up”, Kodo ~ Heartbeat Drummers. Sheffield Lab, Dafos ~ Reference Recordings. Insane Clown Possie anyone? The low synthbass is “insane” on this one. The subs will handle most of that but the main speakers/SE84UFO will still be running full range. But, that’s why I bought two of these. Bridging the two channels together supposed yields about 6 watts (instead of 2x2=4). Regardless, two bridged SE83UFO at least doubles the power and provides two separate power supplies which should take some strain off compared to a single SE84 driving both channels.

 

All in all, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed in this amp unless it’s a need for more power. Like I said, I haven’t really pushed this thing against the wall yet, but I didn’t buy for head banging. It has a lot of finesse, transparency, transparency without becoming edgy or glassy. I can’t yet say that it has the resolving power of my NAD M32. It sort of does, but I’ve made no direct comparison yet. The good news is I have no compelling reason to change anything or go back to my regular setup.

 

Tonight & probably tomorrow I’ll just be streaming some Blues radio programs from WDCB as I occasionally get motivated enough to turn the system bass down and play along for a few tunes (sort of a personalized jam session. LOL)

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What I believe you’re hearing is the overall balance of the EL84 tube wired single ended. I’ve had several 84 amps SE and UL and they all have the characteristics of what you describe. Even now out of the blue a friend gave me a Dynaco ST35 EL84 based amp to listen for a spell. As good as any 84 amp I’ve owned, single ended or otherwise. 

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3 hours ago, richieb said:

What I believe you’re hearing is the overall balance of the EL84 tube wired single ended. I’ve had several 84 amps SE and UL and they all have the characteristics of what you describe. Even now out of the blue a friend gave me a Dynaco ST35 EL84 based amp to listen for a spell. As good as any 84 amp I’ve owned, single ended or otherwise. 

That's very interesting Rich. I have absolutely no experience with EL84. But, just to be clear, my SE84UFO came with Russian 6P15P-EV (which I also have zero experience with), which apparently is a video tube.

 

There is some discussion about substitution/equivalent between EL34 & 6P15P with Roger Modjeski who many of you audio veterans may recall, here, at the end:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=70951.0

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I am sure you meant EL84 above and not EL34. I do the same thing at times. The Russian 6P14 is the EL-84 equivalent. You have to connect the 3rd grid, to the cathode for the 6P15P to work much as the EL84 which has the 3rd grid connected to the cathode internally. Steve does this when building where you can use the 6P15P along with the EL84 or 6P14P. 

 

Guys this amp with this small tube from Decware is a really good amplifier for the price but lets not make it out as something it is not. The schematic was once posted on Decware's website but not really necessary being it is such a simple circuit as most SET amplifiers are to design oneself. I built one many years ago and it does sound really good and is worth every penny but in a direct comparison to a big KT-88 or 300B one will immediately hear a difference. I mean same quality parts in build of course. The bigger the tube the better the bass is going to be. Just as big speakers have big sound big tubes have big sound as well. Just plain physics of electronics. 

None of this makes any difference since the amp does make decent bass but not what I would call the same quickness and control a big tube amplifier has. That and a much larger sound stage and presence of the bigger the tube. I could be very happy with the SET EL84 amp I have if it were the only amplifier I own and would never complain about how wonderful it sounds. Decware sells those bigger tube amps as well for a lot more money for a reason though. 

 

Congratulations of your new purchase and enjoy. In no way take this as criticism of your new amplifier. Hey it is being run as a single ended triode, my favorite form of amplification. 

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12 hours ago, henry4841 said:

Guys this amp with this small tube from Decware is a really good amplifier for the price but lets not make it out as something it is not. it does sound really good and is worth every penny but in a direct comparison to a big KT-88 or 300B one will immediately hear a difference. The bigger the tube the better the bass is going to be. Just as big speakers have big sound big tubes have big sound as well. Just plain physics of electronics. 

None of this makes any difference since the amp does make decent bass but not what I would call the same quickness and control a big tube amplifier has. That and a much larger sound stage and presence of the bigger the tube. I could be very happy with the SET EL84 amp I have if it were the only amplifier I own and would never complain about how wonderful it sounds. Decware sells those bigger tube amps as well for a lot more money for a reason though. 

 

 That's exactly how I feel about the Carver tube amps I've owned; the original EL-84 Black Magic VTA-20 is a great little amplifier but the newer 25's and 275's with the KT-120's are just better all around. 

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On 2/17/2023 at 8:27 AM, artto said:

DECWARE SE84UFO (INITIAL) REVIEW

 

Actually. I bought two with the intention of using them as mono blocks for increased headroom.

 

Initially I’m just using one SE84UFO as a stereo amp. The amp was warmed up for 1.5 hours before listening. The initial listening session was 1.5 hours.

 

 Congrats on the new Decwares! As a person who really enjoyed my Carver 275 in stereo for quite a long time adding the second one to run in mono was a game changer, I suggest getting yours set up as mono-blocks asap the difference for me was staggering. Would be curious to hear if you have the same experience. 

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Congratulations on your new amp

Cymbal strikes, bells, triangles are I believe excellent test of rise and fall performance.

From zero to wide open, resonance, and then decay or complete drop. Like a square wave.

The mids, to my taste, are best tested with a female voice, no autotune and no reverb, or as close as you can get to no reverb. The angel should sound like an angel.

 

To my understanding, bass  requires lots of readily available reserve power, and the ability to deliver it quickly.

I assume the decware is not directly driving the subs.

As to warm up, any unit should reach it's operating temperature range in a few minutes or less.

I'm not a tube guy, but my understanding is that they are self-consuming. So there must be a range of performance when they are in spec, then hopefully gracefully fade away as they go further out of spec. I have to believe they are in their specified operating parameters the day they are new  or they wouldn't pass test at the factory. There is probably a number of measured operating hours, before the tube goes out of spec.

 

I was also listing to Dr John and that segment, enjoyed it.

My two cents......

M

 

 

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Looking at the design, I see that they used rectifier tubes

Many would remove these in tube amps and replace with 2 diodes

Not sure of the advantage of staying with a rectifier tube, since I believe solid state or just diodes outperform the tubes in any measurable way.

 

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I finally got around to hooking them up as monoblocs. The gain is noticeably higher, the preamp doesn't have to be turned up as much. Haven't noticed any increase in noise/hum which is very low, much better than the Chinese SET amps I've tried. Overall sound maybe a little more robust than running one stereo unit but I think the subs are adding most of that.

 

 

Decware SE84UFO_2_25%.jpg

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I think these are wonderful little amps.

 

Quite honestly, even with the long wait I was hoping there would be *something* I didn't like about them so I'd have an excuse to unload them. But there's really nothing not to like. So far there's nothing I can point to that makes me want to pull them out of the system, like bloated flabby bass, or 60Hz hum, whatever. Very nice balance of all positive attributes. I'm sure, not for everyone. But if you can tolerate the low power requirement these are certainly worth your time to give it a try.

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