DECWARE SE84UFO REVIEW

[ned]

Artto - thank you for the review and the wide range of music you've detailed. Somehow I trust your ears.....

 

I went onto the list in September - 17 months ago - and hope to receive my UFO2.1 in the next couple of months. 

 

Your review will help me pass the time. I am not entirely clear on your various systems - are you using these to run your KHorns? 

 

[artto]

16 minutes ago, Peacemaker said:

What speakers are running the monos on?

 

Is that a NAD M33 I see? How do you like it?

 

Klipsch probably isn't going to like this but I've been using Danley SH50 for quite a while now. I'm using 4 Epic Empire subs. But the rest of the house is all Klipsch. My old Khorns are now in the model railroad room.

 

That's an NAD M32. I love it. At the moment I'm using it as a digital front end, preamp, streamer. Unorthodox, I know. But so far I think this might actually be the better way to go (instead of tube front end).

 

I've considered the NAD M33 but I don't like what NAD took out compared to M32. Only 2 MDC upgrade slots vs 5. Fixed sub 80Hz crossover vs 40Hz-200Hz or full range. No attenuation of mains or subs available. No adjustable high pass filter/crossover for mains. And as much as I like the new simulated M33 meters, they only work for BluOS streaming. And they're VU (input) meters, not power output. So kind of worthless.

[Peacemaker]

2 hours ago, artto said:

 

Klipsch probably isn't going to like this but I've been using Danley SH50 for quite a while now. I'm using 4 Epic Empire subs. But the rest of the house is all Klipsch. My old Khorns are now in the model railroad room.

 

That's an NAD M32. I love it. At the moment I'm using it as a digital front end, preamp, streamer. Unorthodox, I know. But so far I think this might actually be the better way to go (instead of tube front end).

 

I've considered the NAD M33 but I don't like what NAD took out compared to M32. Only 2 MDC upgrade slots vs 5. Fixed sub 80Hz crossover vs 40Hz-200Hz or full range. No attenuation of mains or subs available. No adjustable high pass filter/crossover for mains. And as much as I like the new simulated M33 meters, they only work for BluOS streaming. And they're VU (input) meters, not power output. So kind of worthless.

Thanks for sharing your setup! 
 

Seems like NAD regressed somewhat with features in the newer M33 over the M32. I’m curious what the thinking was 🤔. Probably never know.

[artto]

You can rest assured that NAD will probably introduce a new model of the M33 (ie: M34 or whatever) that has what both the M32 & M33 have. M33 has DIRAC which is something I wish I could get on the M32. But I can do a similar EQ thing with ROON once I get an Intel i7 NUC to handle the DSP.

 

OTOH I’m quite certain NAD partnered with Bruno Putzeys on their new power amp sections because, well, they have done so in the past, and were able to license exclusive rights to manufacture their own “Purifi Eigentakt” hybrid digital technology from him. The M32 (390DD & M2) are all true direct digital DAC amplifiers. Basically just software. NAD co-developed DDFB (direct digital feedback) technology with U.K. company Zetex Semiconductor.

https://nadelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DirectDigital_WhitePaper.pdf

 

However, Zetex later got bought by CSR, and then CSR was acquired by Qualcomm. That ended NAD exclusivity using DDFB. Reading about DDFB on Qualcomm’s website you would think they are the ones who invented it. Qualcomm obviously has other “bigger” plans for DDFB.

[Peacemaker]

I’ve learned more from your response about the NAD M32 and M33 than I have anywhere else! Thank you!

[artto]

Thanks!

And one other thing.........the M32 has optical & coax digital pass-thru outputs, deleted on M33. All the manufacturers seem to be removing any ability to "copy" or transmit digital audio/video data through/from the amplifier/receiver to another component as was done in the old days with "record out" features. I've done a lot of my own recording. Having digital output/pass-thru is important to me for my own use.

 

Did some listening last night with the M32 only (no subs either), only streaming radio, NPR WDCB.org. BluOS app player. Compared to the SE84UFO, M32 is definitely "crisper", cleaner, with stronger more powerful bass.

 

The night before I listened to a few long tracks from the live recording "The Mothership Returns" - Return to Forever (reunion). One notable difference/characteristic I've noticed with SE84UFO (indeed, probably most tube amps) is, for instance, Jean-Luc Ponty's electric violin. even with a very clean & clear amp like M32, Ponty's violin can have some edge, bite, sharpness, especially in the highest registers. It can get at my ears at times, espically at higher SPL as the room acoustics get increasingly involved. With the SE84UFO that edginess, sharpness, is what I would call "polished". Not necessarily any "smoother". Polished seems like the correct subjective description to me. This recording has more slam using the M32. So, as usual, it's kind of a pick your poison, what kind of flavor do you like sort of thing. The SE84UFO is more "polite", some might say more forgiving, but personally I think it exposes everything that needs to be exposed. (for referrence peak SPL C-weighted 95dB with subs on)

[richieb]

This is surprising to me. I can’t think of any single ended tube amps I’ve owned that don’t have more sparkle on top than solid state and in particular Class D.  Add clarity to that or as the reviewers say “transparency”. As my ears  hear it the Benchmark amps are the most transparent solid state amps I’ve owned. When going from Hypex amps to Benchmark I could instantly hear the Bench removed any veil to the sound. They may be too clean for some but honest they are. First Watt F5 come close. But still to a lesser degree than single ended tube. But of course it’s the room, the speaker/amp interaction etc. - 

[82 Cornwalls]

7 hours ago, artto said:

Did some listening last night with the M32 only (no subs either), only streaming radio, NPR WDCB.org. BluOS app player. Compared to the SE84UFO, M32 is definitely "crisper", cleaner, with stronger more powerful bass.

 

The night before I listened to a few long tracks from the live recording "The Mothership Returns" - Return to Forever (reunion). One notable difference/characteristic I've noticed with SE84UFO (indeed, probably most tube amps) is, for instance, Jean-Luc Ponty's electric violin. even with a very clean & clear amp like M32, Ponty's violin can have some edge, bite, sharpness, especially in the highest registers. It can get at my ears at times, espically at higher SPL as the room acoustics get increasingly involved. With the SE84UFO that edginess, sharpness, is what I would call "polished". Not necessarily any "smoother". Polished seems like the correct subjective description to me. This recording has more slam using the M32. So, as usual, it's kind of a pick your poison, what kind of flavor do you like sort of thing. The SE84UFO is more "polite", some might say more forgiving, but personally I think it exposes everything that needs to be exposed. (for referrence peak SPL C-weighted 95dB with subs on)

 

Was this with one UFO or two?

[artto]

Initially I just used one UFO for a few days. I had to get a pair of decent Y-adapter/splitter cable/connectors. When I received those I hooked them up as a pair of monoblocs. The last week or so I've been using two.

[artto]

1 hour ago, richieb said:

This is surprising to me. I can’t think of any single ended tube amps I’ve owned that don’t have more sparkle on top than solid state and in particular Class D.  Add clarity to that or as the reviewers say “transparency”. As my ears  hear it the Benchmark amps are the most transparent solid state amps I’ve owned. When going from Hypex amps to Benchmark I could instantly hear the Bench removed any veil to the sound. They may be too clean for some but honest they are. First Watt F5 come close. But still to a lesser degree than single ended tube. But of course it’s the room, the speaker/amp interaction etc. - 

😊

That's funny Rich. For me I'd have to say it's quite the opposite. More sparkle in the midrange, yes. Especially 300B amps. But IMHO the treble tends to roll-off more with tube amps in general, especially with a speaker load. To ne, clarity and transparency are too different things.

 

Benchmark is another one I'd like to try. But right now I'm seriously considering swapping out the M32 for a M12 preamp and getting a NAD M23 for power. And maybe a Decware Sarah 300B. If I order it now I might have it in 2 years.

 

Bottom line (for me) regarding the SE84UFO is it's pretty much like all the reviews have said. I've come up with all the same subjective descriptions they have. Well balanced, transparent, "musical" (I really hate that one), not lacking any bass, surprisingly quiet for a zero neg-feedback SET, plays louder than one would expect, etc. and whatever else I've read. I'm putting them back on tonight.

[richieb]

Benchmark? I may soon be parting with one, let me know if you’re interested - 

[Idontknow]

SE84UFO was a wonderful unit I had for several years until I finally sold it. It had a sweet and pretty sound. The only thing is I didn't find it to be as balanced. The most incredible single unit I've heard to date is the Elekit 8600s 300B. Absolutely breathtaking performance and an extremely holographic presentation. It had everything the SE84UFO had and more with a bigger, meatier soundstage. It uses the amazing Lundahl transformers and the bass was sensational. The SE84UFO just had a smaller sound. 

[henry4841]

9 hours ago, Idontknow said:

The most incredible single unit I've heard to date is the Elekit 8600s 300B. Absolutely breathtaking performance and an extremely holographic presentation. It had everything the SE84UFO had and more with a bigger, meatier soundstage. It uses the amazing Lundahl transformers and the bass was sensational. The SE84UFO just had a smaller sound. 

My experience as well. Bigger tube, bigger sound. 

[henry4841]

Just thought I would add, the same is true with transistors. Bigger transistor bigger sound. There are guys at diyaudio playing with big SIT transistors with positive reviews. 

[richieb]

In reviews for the Pass XA25 it was said NP was utilizing power transistors “big as hockey pucks”. Maybe an exaggeration but Pass does design with out of the box  components - 

[Mikekid]

I posted this to the Decware Forum a few weeks ago.

Initial impressions with Klipsch, Oppo, and Zen
01/31/24 at 17:30:51  

Just an impression from yesterdays arrival and first listen. I ordered my SE84UFO2.1 the end of Nov, 2021. My wife told me to place the order, and after my stalling several times, she said she's just going to order it anyway then. So I did. ~It arrived double boxed and packed with care. Outstanding. Kathy helped me set it all up (my left side is gimped) The amp is hooked up to an Oppo BDP-103 as the only source (for now) and 1998  (96 models. last year manu) Klipsch ChorusII speakers. I have read a hundred times how things 'burn in' and even get better sounding as amp is settling in. Well, If more of that burn in makes this little amp even better, I cannot imagine much more than it already sounds. We played several cd's last night and probably should have watched the time. Snuck up on us. Played the entire cd of Simon and Garfunkels greatest hits, then several songs from Dire straits, several songs from Supertramp sacd and a blu ray. And single songs off several more discs, including Kansas. I set the volume at about 3 o'clock and used the Oppo volume control as needed and it worked perfectly fine. Didn't really need it much anyway. By the way-PLENTY of volume out of this setup. Amazing. I am not going to try to describe the sound as it would sound much like the reviewers have already said. We both heard things we hadn't noticed before on many of the songs last night. And the songs played we knew very well over so many years. Well, we thought we did I guess. Better recordings make a huge difference as we all know, this thing makes those better ones nuts! I also wanted to thank Veronica as I did call her a couple times, she answered my questions and took care of business. I have some trouble talking sometimes and she was wonderful. Thank you Mr. Deckert and all staff as well. Pure quality in all regards. I'll check back in in a month or so.. Please excuse my typing etc, getting off the pc now. Practice typing session is over. ~~~So happy!!! All the best~ Mike    ~~~~~edit: We have now listened to this almost every evening since it's arrival.. I did finally hook up one of our subs to it as well using high level speaker cables. Just added a bit more bass but did not want boomy, so kept it turned way down, cut off at about 50 hz..   Perfection. Took us two years to get this and could not be happier with it. Plenty of volume, crystal clarity, depth/clean bass with chorusII's by the way! Just beautiful to listen too! What a match! Never heard anything quite like this before in my life. Wish I'd have known this way before the reviewers got hold of one.. Take care all  ~  Mike

[mark1101]

On 2/26/2023 at 7:02 PM, artto said:

Initially I just used one UFO for a few days. I had to get a pair of decent Y-adapter/splitter cable/connectors. When I received those I hooked them up as a pair of monoblocs. The last week or so I've been using two.

 

Arto,

 

I have two of the same amps on order.  I intended to use as monblocks, but balanced.  Are you running balanced?  If so, did you get the required cables (for balanced) pre-made from Decware or did you have to make them?

 

Can you share what the cable requirements are to monoblock them?

 

I know, two different things.  But it is good info if you could share.

 

Thanks

[82 Cornwalls]

2 hours ago, mark1101 said:

 

Arto,

 

I have two of the same amps on order.  I intended to use as monblocks, but balanced.  Are you running balanced?  If so, did you get the required cables (for balanced) pre-made from Decware or did you have to make them?

 

Can you share what the cable requirements are to monoblock them?

 

I know, two different things.  But it is good info if you could share.

 

Thanks

 

The instructions for both connections are in the owner's manual, with a Y cable is just written instructions, balanced has a diagram.

 

Don't believe you will have 6 watts doing this, tube amps don't work like solid state, about 4 watts at best.