Jump to content

Art Duley reviews the VPI Scout in Feb Stereophile


jazman

Recommended Posts

Someone was nice enough to send me a copy. Finally, an American publication has taken the time to review this turntable. Interestingly, he makes comparisons of its performance against the almighty and more expensive Linn LP12 turntable, Naim Aro Tonearm, Naim Armageddon Power Supply. He also references the Rega3 turntable with RB300 tonearm, with upgraded P3 motor, which was my exact analog setup prior to purchasing the VPI Scout.

I don't have the bandwith to upload a copy of this review. And no, Dudley is not throwing away his Linn to chase down a Scout, BUT the closing lines of Dudleys review read ....

"But if you're just starting out in analog or upgrading an existing front end, and if you can spend $1500 on a turntable and tonearm, here's some advice: Go hear VPI's new player right away. This is not a cautious, conditional, "for special tastes only" recommendation.

........Rather this is a flat out, unconditional, "Holy Mother of Crap, I can't believe how good this thing is recommendation". It's hard to imagine another way of spending $1500 that will add this much to your system.

A very interesting read, especially considering Kelly is in the process of evaluation a more expensive PE turntable. Dudley is a Linny who actually likes the VPI Scout.

Klipsch out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 43
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

~ from a post I started last week and never finished

Art Dudley's Listener Magazine folded and many were upset including me as I liked the tube coverage with generally well-considered reviews based on listening tests with the reviewer living with the gear for a few months or more.

Well, it seems Stereophile took in Art Dudley which will be interesting to see as he has a certain take on gear that is not expressed by the typical Stereophile reviewer (if there is such a thing). Yeah, I dont always agree with Art which is fine although we do share many of the same likes and dislikes in audio, not to mention a fairly similar take on what constitutes good gear.

That is why I was interested in his take on the VPI Scout with JMW 9 tonearm. Art has a fully tweaked Linn LP-12 and reviewed the VPI Scout. It's an interesting article. ...end old post

Did you notice his discussion of the felt pad sans clamp? A few of you might not remember this but I commented that I found the Linn Felt mat to be a big improvement over the record placed directly on th acrylic platter. To me, it sounded more relaxed, atmospheric, and less sterile. The record on the bare acrylic sounded a tad tipped up in the presence region as well. There was a slight harshness introduced...this is ever so slight and noticable on my tweaked 2A3-Cornwall system. I found I preferred the felt in all situations with almost all types of music.

SEcondly, and Art felt the same, I disliked the sound of the table with the CLAMP with or without felt. I really feel the clamp does something to the playback that is not natural. Ironically, Art said the same thing and pretty much echoed the findings I had but with different tables. My $40000 PE table is built like a tank and does some things VERY VERY well. I count it as a fine example of the modern table and virtually tweak free. It is the most solid table I have ever used. Ditto for the motor assembly. But the clamp was a sonic disappointment.

IF anyone here HAS an acylic table with clamp, give a Linn Felt mat a try WITHOUT the clamp. This combination with tubes and HORNS is much more natural and harmonically pleasing. I just find the clamp with acylic to have too many sonic tradeoffs for the few advantages.

But I want to echo Edmond's take on the review. Art really gives it a rave review. I agree that it is probably the deal in a modern type table right now.

kh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did notice the comments regarding the clamp. Noted that HW said this has less to do with damping than it does with keeping the record as flat as it can be.

The jury is still out on my setup. I've done some of my own comparisions using a home made "donut mat" from Home Depot shelf liner.

I can hear difference between mat vs no mat. I have not made up my mind on which sonic difference I like more. I've adjusted the VTA 4 turns of the base ring, which I find to be the appoximate thickness of the donut mat material.

Perhaps this weekend I can revisit the comparisions.

- The unknown someone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim,

How do you like the CV4003's in your phono preamp. I have a set of those in my HF-81 although there providing a different use there they do seem to be nice for the ducats. I purchased mine for $30 from a ebay seller in England. Its great how they are wrapped and the pin protectors isn't it !!

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I think the felt mat might be less of an impact than the donut. btw, I shared about four emails with that loon and he assures me that the donut is more than shelf liner. Anyway, it might do you good to buy a Linn felt mat just to have on hand. I am listening to it now and with my stuff, it just seems so much more natural. The $150 clamp is sitting on the shelf as well. Sorry for the typo above, the PE table is $4000, not 40,000. Here are my two vinyl rigs right now:

tables1.jpg

Frankly, I have new-found respect for my Linn LP-12.... you know the ole tubes vs solid state comparison? yep.... I am moving toward the same thing with modern design vs old with tables. Although the PE table is really amazing. I am listening to a "just cleaned and fixed" copy of Sonny Rollins "A Night at the Village Vanguard" and it's DAMN good (I will have two copies of this from my dear friend Allan pretty soon - I just got this skip out of the first, though).

kh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Craig - I like them quite a bit. They sound nice, don't seem to have much noise and arn't terribly microphonic. No complaints. They were worth the $40 I paid for them. They are a very handsome tube... IMHO.

I've picked up some CV4004 Brimar for comparision which I plan to try this weekend along with some military issue 5751's. I'll post my comments on that.

Kelly - Where can I get a Linn Felt Mat... what do those cost?

- Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I read the review in Stereophile and found the VPI Scout review refreshing, especially coming from a "Linnie". My main deck is a Linn LP12 with Nirvana spec chassis, Lingo PS, Ittok LVII arm, latest version laminated armboard, and a Van den Hul modified Entre' moving coil cartridge. The deck sits on a Torlyte base that meets Linn's recommendation for "light & rigid", the base hefts like balsa wood. This is an extremely nice sounding deck and there's no need to go into the characteristics that "Linnies" usually gush over. A while back I tripped over a killer deal on a new-in-the-box Rega RB900 tonearm (better than 40% discount) so I bought it with the intent of improving the LP12. Uh, dumb move. The RB900 uses heavy-duty Klotz low capacitance cabling that is not only stiff, but there's two cables coming out the base of the arm. The cabling does not have a 90° bend like Linn cables do so suffice it to say that it's damn near impossible to fit a Rega RB900 into a LP12 without fouling the unit's suspension. Believe me, I tried!

This little episode left me with an orphan Class A tonearm to figure out what to do with so the first decision I made was to look for a non-suspended deck. After some research the VPI Scout emerged as a stand-out in its price class and in a lot of cases above its price class. I ordered a Scout from Elusive Disc (great people!) and fitted the arm. So far I really like this deck, it's very well made, looks good, and the Rega arm works well with it. I'm still running it in with a Grado Gold MM cartridge that has a decent sound, but I'm getting a moving coil cartridge as soon as I can scrape together some cash and decide what to buy. This should really shine with the right cartridge, I'll likely go with a Dynavector of some sort.

I've tried swapping LP's from one deck to the other to hear the difference and while the Scout is a really nice sounding deck the Linn still outclasses it. With the difference in my cartridges you can only compare them but so much, though. For the most part the LP12 has slightly better soundstaging and bass extension, and the pitch is dead on. The Scout has good pitch but doesn't quite have the Linn "PRAT", and is tilted a bit more towards mid and upper frequencies. A well recorded LP played on the VPI sounds fantastic until you put that same LP on the Linn - the sound "opens up" a bit and bass is much cleaner. At this point the Scout needs a better cartridge for any further accessments, also bear in mind that it's probably not fully broken in yet. And yes, the deck is level, the cartridge tracking weight, VTA, azimuth, and anti-skating are all correct. Believe me, it was a bee-otch finding stainless steel spacers to get the arm at the right height.

Overall, the Scout is a great turntable and is easier to handle than suspended decks. The fit and finish is superb, Harry definitely gives you what you pay for. This will be a keeper (I go through a lot of gear) and probably will make 99% of you out there happy if you buy one. I don't know what they sound like with the JMW-9 tonearm but I bet it's also really good. If mine had a cartridge more similar to my LP12 it would probably sound very, very close to the quality of the Linn. Considering that the deck retails for $850.00 without arm and for $1500.00 with the JMW-9 arm installed it's a hell of a deal, there's decks on the market for double or triple the price that won't sound as good. For a reference, try pricing a new full-spec LP12 - it will scare you.

I've also tried playing LP's with clamp-directly on platter, without clamp-directly on platter, with clamp-on Linn mat, without clamp-on Linn mat, etc. Playing directly on the acrylic platter does tend to emphasize mids and treble slightly, playing on the mat softens that effect but doesn't seem to enhance bass response. I guess a lot depends on component and speaker type, combined with the recording quality of the LP you're listening to. Anyone looking to buy a turntable should really give the Scout serious consideration if it's in your price range, and think hard about ponying up a few more bucks if it isn't. It could be a permanent fixture in a lot of systems, you have to spend a lot more or buy used to get near it's quality. And best of all, it's made in the US of A !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curmudgeon,

Based on AD's comments, the Scout with JMW arm, and equal cartridges, exceeded the Linn is some areas on his reference LP's. Comments like "....the VPI sounded a little more open and spread out, and just plain bigger, while being just as involving and emotionally convincing."

"The VPI seemed to broaden the response curve in both directions, and the soundfield was much bigger--man on the street bigger, not something I had to strain my audioweenie ears to hear."

"The VPI combo also sounded differeent from the Linn in it's sense of scale. The Scout and JMW9 did a better job of seperating voices and instruments from one another, and overall created a bigger stage between the speakers. The Linn/Naim combo sounds smaller, with more of a chunky, mono-like focus that some may or may not prefer."

Don't think I'm fooling myself into thinking I bettered an investment in a Linn front end by buying the Scout. It is however, comforting to know that better ears than mine can also find this combo extremely satifying and a good value. I wrestled with my budget and my head many days and nights whether I should purchase "the whole ma gilla" of table and arm. I'm glad I did.

BTW, you may want to consider a Clearaudio MM design with your Scout/Rega combo.

Klipsch out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Craig,

I bought a pair of the NOS CV4003 for my HF-81, I too was impressed with packaging. unfortunately, one of the ones I got was so horribly microphonic I had to return it. It would actually set up sort of a feedback condition. Touching the amp to do anything or flipping any switch caused a loud thump to come out of the speakers. Other than that they were wonderful, though. ;)

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pat,

I still have not touched anything on Tele-Scott (all Telefunken, all the time ;)) I got from you. I've been trying to finish up or at least make some identifiable progress on the other stuff I've got. I had that $150 222C I got off a BIN thing on ebay before the one I got from you, that's the one I re-capped with Craigs parts. It sounds great, I've had it in the garage hooked up to a five disc CD changer set to repeat forever for almost a week. It is really sounding nice but I doubt it would match up with the one I got from you. Actually, I'm not at all sure there is an upgrade to the Jensen's you put in that nice Scott.

I've been working 12's at the AXP data center a lot lately so I haven't had time to work on the stuff very much.

My wife has gotten used to the Scott I got from you and now doesn't want to give it up. :) I'm going to hook up the VCR to the tuner jacks on it, see if it works. If it does I'm going to try re-arranging my stereo/TV cabinet to hold it. Right now it's sitting on top of one of my Heresy's beside the cabinet. I've been looking for wood for it, no luck. I may have a buddy bend a cage for it just so it will be protected until I can come up with something. He has a nice metal fab shop and owes me favors for fixing the engine in his sprint car.

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom,

To do a fair comparision of the 2 - 222C's you would have to use the Telefunkens in both. I run my 299B with all telefunkens and this is the ultimate tube combo for these amps. Problem is its almost impossible to score telefunken 7189s or 6U8's anymore that match close enough for use !! What tubes do you have in the 222C in the garage ? You would also have to use them in the same room with the same speakers and setup ! I find comparing the 2 in different rooms with different sources , Speakers and what not to be careless and inaccurate.

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Craig,

I fully agree with your comments, that's why I haven't gotten all excited about doing some A-B comparison, I doubt I could control the variables closely enough to make it meaningful. ALso, the listening conditions in the house are far from ideal, making it harder to come up with valid results.

I used to do some dyno testing of racing engines, I learned how hard it is to really control variables even in an environment that was meant to be stable for testing.

BTW, got any Scott wood for sale? I really want find something nice for this near-museum quality 222C I got from Pat.

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

----------------

On 1/18/2003 12:58:54 AM jazman wrote:

BTW, you may want to consider a Clearaudio MM design with your Scout/Rega combo.

Klipsch out.

----------------

jazman,

Thanks for the cartridge suggestion. There's no audio dealers in my area that sell high-end (or even decent mid-fi) cartridges, most stock either Audio-Technica or Grado only, and the ones that have Grado won't stock anything but the Prestige line. Everything else is special order basis at full pop retail. To get any kind of decent discount on-line ordering seems best. About all I can do is research and read everything I can about an upcoming purchase and hope that it sounds good, there's few if any companies that will let you return a cartridge if you don't like it. The Clearaudio's have been getting good reviews so I need to look into them further. One reason I was considering Dynavector is that it's reputed to work very well on both Linn LP12's and VPI setups (in case I want to swap). For the most part the 1980's kinda sucked, but what I miss most about that era is being able to go to a stereo dealer that not only had good cartridges in stock but usually had several on demo turntables to listen to. 8.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mobile,

I was strongly considering the 20-XL or the 20-XH, both retail for about $525.00. The XL low output version is supposed to sound just slightly better than the XH high output, but the XH can be used with most MM phono stages. Decisions, decisions. The next real step up in the Dynavector line is the XX-2 which is about $1600.00, and I'm not sure I really want to dump that much into a cartridge right now (or ever). The 10x4 at $350.00 has gotten a lot of good reviews too. Most of my friends have low to mid-fi setups and have bailed out of vinyl altogether so I'm mostly on my own for figuring out purchases. At one point I was also considering a Sumiko Blue Point Special, Audio Advisor will run discounts or specials on them at times. I know you're using a Blue Point and like it, plus it's very reasonably priced. I'm going to look in the $300 to $500.00 range and try to match compliance to the RB-900. I'm guessing that any cartridge that works well on the Rega P25 should also work with the VPI/RB900.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, what was your favorite selection for the Linn? I really liked the older Linn cartridges but have not heard them or used them in years (besides the Linn K9 which I had a few extra). The regular Blue Point is a very relaxed, atmospheric, BIG, rather loose and free sounding cartridge that has a VERY nice sound that I have ALWAYS liked whether through tubes or solid state. Trouble is, the price had gotten rather high on it. I got a handful of those at a big discount when working for a radio station since we outfitted the control and production room with some nice gear. I just now (in the last few months) ran out of my last one and I am now up for new cartridges on both tables. I really want to try some new stuff and am perhaps looking to MC with a stepup device if I can get a deal. But I am not overlooking a balanced sounding MM either. I might be reviewing the PE table so I need some different options on it.

I am possibly going to go for the Denon DL-103 as an option. Have you ever had this on the Linn?

kh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of the cartridges I've had on the Linn:

Signet model # whatever (can't remember) MM: ~$300.00 in 1985 Very nice, smooth, detailed, strong bass, also very obsolete

Benz Micro Gold MC: didn't like it due to top end sizzle, bright sounding, thin bass - sold it after deciding further break-in was pointless

Grado Prestige Gold MM: nice for the money, smooth sounding, can hum, can get strange ocillations on certain LP's (the Grado dance)

My favorite cartridge currently on the Linn is an Entre' brand that was revamped by Van den Hul. This cartridge was sold mostly in England but I can't find diddly about it on the net. It's from the early eighties but had negligible wear on it under the microscope. When this one is gone it's gone for good.

I've never heard the Denon DL-103 on a Linn, but the cartridge consistently gets good reviews. Its not exactly a new model but if something works why change it? They are a little bit hard to find in this country (another anomaly) but can be had, though. It's output is a bit on the low side so you do need a quiet phono stage with lots of gain. Everything I've read on it has been favorable except when someone was using a cheapo phono stage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curmudgeon,

What are you using to drive a LOMC? A good step up device and it's cost, along with cost of a good LOMC has managed to keep me out of that ball game, though I'd like a chance to at least play once. BTW, tbabb is using a Clearaudio Virtuosso from Elusive Disc, which I consider as my next MM selection, if I can't resolve the cost of LOMC.

Kelly,

Have you heard anything on the "Clearaudio Basic Phono Preamp"? It seems reasonably priced and I just saw one go on Audiogon for $280(new$399). It automaticly adjusts to ANY cartridge and the seller was using it with an EMT TU 2 LOMC.

Where are you on a decision for a step up device? I've seen the LOMC Denon 103 for sale on Audiogon, but not often. They can be purchased from sites overseas.

Klipsch out.

PS. You never said where to get a Linn felt pad. I did prefered my Rega 3 WITH the felt pad, and I tried it with and without. If I had kept the Rega, I would have also tried a clamp for keeping records flat on the platter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...