Jump to content

Does equipment, speakers and electronics, sound better after some hours on them.


henry4841

Recommended Posts

I’m in the 50 hours for a woofer to “get down” camp.

 

I had been using a pair of Kappa 15Cs in my FH-1 bins for a couple years downstairs. I took them out to play around with them in a Cornscala build upstairs, which I quite liked the midbass on, so I kept them there. Bought a new pair to put back in the FH-1s. Thought I had wired something out of phase, opened them up to check it out, reefed down on all the bolts (8 spiky pests in an FH-1 bin), even wound up stripping one, sigh. I even rechecked the specs online to see if there were production differences. Fast forward about a month of typical listening and POW!

 

It seemed almost immediate to me when they “broke in”. 

 

I too also find my amp to sound better after it’s been on for at least 20 minutes, but THAT might be my ears/brain putting everything back into phase compared to what I have heard all day at work. I often leave the amp on but muted overnight and the next day it’s 50/50 whether it gels after unmuting. The quality of the recording I’ve randomly chosen no doubt plays a role in all this.
 

But after 20 minutes, either I’m less critical or more appreciative, lol. 
 

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alcohol relaxes a muscle in the inner ear - so that midrange sounds louder after a few.

I tuned my 1970's nightclub systems much like THX today, sloping -3dB/octave above 1000 Hz

so we didn't drive the patrons away. See my friends Mr. Fletcher and Mr. Munson regarding hearing physics -

 

 

loudness-and-pitch-5-638.jpg

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I changed my opinion on SS gear sound better with some breaking  in just a few years ago. Before then I would say sand devices sound the same from the first day but after building 50 or more audio electronic devices I can say it really does happen just as with tubes. How and what changes, I honestly do not know, it is only what I perceive to hear. That and talented audio engineers say it does as well. Granted it is subtle differences most of the time except the times bass greatly improved on two class D amplifier projects I built. Guys when I first listened to them after building the bass was just not there. After a few minutes being on they both have some of the best bass I have ever heard. Dramatical difference anyone should notice. I decided then there may be some truth in breaking in SS gear. 

 

I think the designers that say their equipment sounds best after being on for 24 hours might know what they are talking about because there is a lot of drift of components as they heat up from running current through them. Anyone that has the set the bias on an a SS amplifier knows and understands this. Just taking the cover off makes the bias and also the DC offset drift some. I must assume after 24 hours all components have settled down to the proper operating temperature delivering better sound. At my age with diminished hearing I probably cannot tell the difference but I understand there are those with remarkable hearing that might so I cannot question the statement of best to be left on all the time. Certainly any class A SS amp will sound better after 30 minutes to an hour of being on. I can hear that difference in my many SS class A amplifiers. Amps sound best after the temperature stabilizes for sure. Mostly true for class A being that A/B amps transistors are being turned up and down depending on the music so the temp never actually stabilizes for optimized performance in the output devices. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"200-500 hours needed to fully break in.  Who the heck remembers exactly what their system sounded like weeks/months ago?" Enough time passed to refuse returns if you still don't like them, or it. 'relaxed or opened up etc etc..'.. 🙃 Brilliant move by some outfits..  😅 Yeah, not exactly the model of health these days.. but I surely can hear very well still. Thankful!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mikekid said:

Who the heck remembers exactly what their system sounded like weeks/months ago?

When I bought RF7-IIIs and a RC64-III I at first thought they were somewhat harsh. I played pink noise through the mains while I was at work for several days and tried them again and they were smoother. To check if the speakers were changing or my ears were becoming used to the sound, I compared the mains with the center channel. After perhaps 100 hours the RF7-IIIs were noticeably more mellow than the RC64-III. I then ran the center on pink noise for several days and then the center and the mains sounded the same. I suspect the woofers were becoming more efficient once the suspension loosened up.

If I didn't have a reference to compare, I would have doubted whether the change was real, but after hearing a comparison in real time, I was convinced.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, grendel23 said:

I would have doubted whether the change was real, but after hearing a comparison in real time, I was convinced.

Honestly, this topic has been discussed over several threads through the decades and Klipsch engineers seemed to say the LF drivers measure pretty close out of the box and any perceived harshness would come out of the horn, which should be unchanged. Regardless, after your effort you're now enjoying your speakers it's a win/win! 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I experience both short-term and other longer-term changes. In the longer-term changes, I see drivers and sometimes capacitors, for example, in a Xover. There is always some of my habituation in play in my opinion but not always and not exclusively.
The short-term changes I see as significant and they are more than just imagination in my experience. A good example is when I clean and re-solder old solder joints in a vintage preamp. Or when I solder other plugs to speaker cables. It sounds every time shortly after hardly spatial and narrow. It takes about 24 hours until it sounds as good as before. It is not imagination because I have forgotten the effect and it surprises me every time how thin and less sonorous something can sound shortly after soldering.
I have no explanation for it. Maybe the molecules have to relax or rearrange themselves, e.g. in the cooled solder.

 

I would like to add that even if the sound of e.g. new speakers can still change during the break-in period, I always have a feeling from the beginning whether I like it or not. I have always experienced changes, e.g. more openness and relaxation in the sound image. But there has never been a device that I did not like at the beginning and after the break-in period I would like it well.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Mikekid said:

Who the heck remembers exactly what their system sounded like weeks/months ago?

That's why we can enjoy the same piece of music over and over.....watch the same movie 100 times? no thanks...listen to a song or opus 100 times? yes over time easily doable.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes and no

Equipment has to come up to operating temp

It is either in spec or not

it should be in spec when you turn it on and it reaches operating temp

Electronics will drift over time, but are designed to stay in a certain performance range

 

Because speakers have motion

does motion change their characteristics ?

Maybe materials become more or less stretchy, but it can't be much and be in spec

 

I would have to say that after 15 min of use to operating temp

that is your break in for tubes and solid state

Speakers, I would have to hear from the materials vendors on their spec sheets

it can't be much, or the speakers won't pass QC test ........

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have found that components routinely exhibit break-in characteristics and are especially noticeable in a number of circumstances on the highly revealing speakers that Klipsch are. The extent to which these characteristics are audible can vary from "not much" to "pretty substantial" depending on what exactly we are talking about: Crossovers, new "hard" gear (such as amps/preamps) digital gear, and then the "esoteric parts", like the RTX polystyrenes and the grand champion of "break in gestation period" - the teflons, which in the right spots can elevate a piece of gear markedly, but most don't have the money or patience to try it. Most other typical stuff doesn't vary as widely or for as long to be that big of an issue.

 

MOST gears - from a new Mac to a NOSValves new amp with film and foils to a new pair of Klipsch Heritage will "get through" most if not all aspects of break-in within 250 hours, and most of that in about 100. Speaker woofers seem to settle in about 50. All of which is to say you won't be waiting long, but for NEW gear buyers, just run the stuff as much as you can for the first few weeks you have it, and put a signal on it as much as you can. For the "exchange/return" policy you should run the snot out of it for two reasons: one is break-in, two is for electronic viability, the defects in workmanship usually show early.

 

For these same batch of "most" gears, they don't usually exhibit a HUGE change in that break in. If anything, I would say the most likely "break-in" change would be with a pair of new speakers -in a set of Heritage the caps and woofer will benefit from 100 hours of work in the finer details of imaging and "top side" (mid/tweet) and resonance with the woofer. At that point you either like them with the room and gears present - or you don't. There could well be gear mismatches, positioning problems, or other stuff at work but the majority of "break-in" should be done by now and the "house sound" (general characteristics) of your gear known at this point. 

 

The changes you get will be better images, more "snap/bounce/better resonance-acoustic", better "flow"/less "gear" sounding. It's subtle in most cases, and it applies to new builds primarily or gear that has been dormant for extended periods of time.

 

With the esoterics (like polystyrenes like the RTX, it's sorta like 10 caps in one) and teflon stuff, these are another matter entirely, and out of the norm. RTX caps are a tough break-in, and there are points with these where you might well think you made a mistake from the super sharp edge these caps develop as they break in. But in time - a longer time (like 500 hours) they give up that edge and leave pure resolution faithful to that signal instead. They just smoooooooooooth out without masking a thing, but you would never believe it unless you knew to be patient.

 

See also teflons, which in custom audio builds are the eighth wonder of the world once "aged", but they are only meant for stuff you already know you like and wish to keep, because it will take 1000+ hours to get the full max benefit of what these can do. Some of the earlier versions (which I have used because I got a deal on them) take 1000ish hours for the initial "bloom" and another 600-1000 for the "smoothout" - where the resolution gets past that "let me show you how deeeeeeeeeeeeetailed I can get" to a place whee it's simply transparent, extracting the signal/recording with nothing else. The newer formulas, like the V-Cap, are burnt in at rated voltage for a few hundred hour burn before they are sent out, to help the end user save time. But you will STILL have 1000ish hours before full maturation and smooooooooooth clarity desired and obtained from using these magnificent little devices. Listening to a teflon bloom in a piece of gear is a lot like witnessing a live birth, it seemingly happens all at once after months of waiting and then all of a sudden the skies open and the gear becomes a completely different animal. But these are the far-exception and are stuff that very few are using. 

 

Then there's the "each session" change from gear warm up - most notable on tube and Class A gears, which sound their best once hot/at operating temperature. My tube rigs always took an hour-is to start showing their best qualities, albeit the general "house sound" is present in a few minutes, once at proper operating voltages.

 

But MOST new stuff is a shorter and more subtle change duration. Many don't notice those changes much at all. Much is based on listening habits too - Metallica at 100db doesn't quite come off the same way or have the same listening considerations as say classical or jazz ensemble, so habit and focus can make a difference. But for a buyer like one reading the Stereophile LaScala 5 recently published, who is likely to have high end electronics and best use recordings for system evaluation in use, where that "advance break-in time" is the way to go. They should NOT be reviewed until they've had that sort of advance work. 

 

If I bought a new set of LaScalas, I would run those for a week solid if possible, when I installed teflons in the NOSValves NBS I ran that for WEEKS at a time. It took SEVEN WEEKS for the initial bloom because I used NOS Cardas teflon caps (at about 1/5th the price) instead of V-Caps (which were $1400 for two). The mylars in a new LaScala aren't reported to take that long and seem more in line with most other typical caps and gears, the 100 hour rec from that reviewer seems to be pretty "on point".

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll wait for someone to record a track from a new component and compare it to a recording after the imagined break-in period. This could be a speaker, a SS transistor unit, a new tube, or a capacitor - whatever.

 

I haven't noticed anything myself. I almost immediately decided to buy Klipshorns after hearing them for the first time--my ears didn't need to adjust over a period of time. It was "problem solved".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...