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Tangent 400 - What I can do to make them better?


konrad911

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Hi Guys,

First thank you for keeping all those discussions going.

I've read recently quite a lot of topics regarding what to do and what to not do with the speakers (or cabs to be precise) and got confused.

 

Yesterday I bought a set of Tangent 400s. The PO upgraded them with CD76TiM Titanium Tweeter Diaphragm (I got the original ones as well). 

Listened to them for about two hours with my amp and DAC (DSD/DSF/FLAC24) and decided I will take them, but will need to work on them as they are in a very sad black color and scratched here and there.

 

My plan is to get new plywood or MDF panels covered with veneer to oak or so (light) color and glue them to the sides and bottom to make them look nicer and also to make the cabs more robust.

 

I've read quite a few discussions about reinforcement brackets inside the cabs and decided not to go for that, but as I want the cabs to look nicer anyway I can strengthen the cabs with an extra layer of MDF or plywood on the outside (not changing any space inside the cab that way). It will be also less work just to glue those panels to the cabs from the outside than remove the black finish and cover with veneer alone.

 

I was thinking to glue these panels using some silicone/rubber based glue to add some additional damping at the same time.

 

So this above is strictly mechanical.

 

As I can solder I was also thinking about replacing all the capacitors inside - I expect that to be a good idea, right?

 

Read that the internals are exactly same as Heresy II, which are higher price tag anyway, but Heresy's cabs are more solid, therefore the Tangents are considered lower quality ones.

But If I can make the cabs more solid, these should be nicer, right?

 

What do you think about my plan?

Any pros/cons of those my ideas you can see?

Any hints?

 

Many thanks for your input.

 

 Konrad

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Really think you have a decent plan in place. If we're trying to  do something, would be the same. Good to have the original diaphragm as well. You may notice a little bit of improvement by refresh of caps but, really need to try more sources of music, placement of speakers to eek out what you have now, so that later you will more readily discern any change. Only 2 Tangent models had owned early on. Never owned any Klipsch that did not work well enough for me as is.

Not a modder myself and some talk of modding here may get warned about talking such here.

Thanks  @konrad911

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Welcome to the forums! The Tangent 400 was sold at base exhanges, etc., at a lower price point than would be sold on the regular market. The only real deficiency is the cabinet material.

 

Yes, all internalsare the same as rhe Heresy IIs.

 

I would either add nice ply/veneer to the outside of the cabinets or build totally new ones. I have HIIs and have heard the T400s. The Tangents have lower bass, and raise the mid and tweeter up to a nice height. The crossovers are probably fine.

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As has been mentioned many times, the Tangent cabinets were the weak link in the chain being 5/8" wood.  If I were to ever come across a set, my plan of attack would depend on the condition of the cabinets.  If they were in good shape, I would just rebuild new cabinets out of either Baltic Birch or MDF, do some basic "non-crazy" bracing inside, and veneer them in whatever grain I liked at the time.  Keeping them the same size means that the grills can be manipulated to go back on again.  Come to think of it, I would probably do the same thing no matter what the cabinets looked like.  If I were going to go to the trouble of slapping panels on the old cabinets, why not just build new cabinets; it's not rocket science and all the parts will move over.

 

But that's just me.

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Thank you guys. Yes, the plan is to have full size grill with a vintage cloth. I think I will make the panels extend like 1/2 of inch forward and fit the grill within that „new” frame. I expect 1/2 mdf or plywood is more than enough and should create nice proportional front frame for the grill. 
 

Adding panels that I will order covered with veneer on a glue’n’play basis seems least time consuming. At the same time I don’t have to take any serious measurments (again time) nor draw anything in CAD to get things cut properly. 

 

So for the time being I will try to stick to the plan of framing the cabs within new panels in bottom/top/sides…

 

But what about the back? Should I also put a panel there to make back more stiff? Or just focus on the look…?

 

These sound nice. I have NAD 304 Amp that I replaced all the caps and resistors in the audio lane. Sound is nice and clear (especially I do like the drums’ sound on these Tangents). At the same time there is no magic happening. Just a correct sounding speakers. 
 

I read the cabs are not that rigid, just as you mentioned above. Otherwise I would just keep them as they are (just change color / veneer). 
 

Thanks for your opinions. 
 Konrad

 

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I don't feel like CAD would have to be used to build the most basic "monkey coffin" boxes.  Have you taken any drivers out and looked inside?  Pretty cheaply made and those back panels would be your weak link, along with the front baffle, with minimal/no internal bracing.  I mean, they are just basic rectangle cabinets.  I built a set of Belle inspired clones a little over 5 years ago out of baltic birch and ribbon mahogany veneer using a tape measure, pencil, paper, and the usual tools (with plans).  But then again, I've built hundreds of boxes, grills, amp racks, door panels, etc., back in my 25 years of car/home audio.  If you bought wood and found a cabinet shop, or maybe even a school with a CNC, they could cut those out easily for a reasonable expense.  They are 35-1/2 x 15 x 14-1/4"  and weigh in at a paltry 45lbs as they sit so maybe a tad larger using thicker wood and bracing.  Forte's, in comparison, weighed in at 65lbs with the same drivers and similar crossover.

 

But I know what you mean on the "color/veneer" part.  I have a pair of (102lb) Epic CF-3's that have the ugliest black satin paint job I've ever seen.  I'm going to re-veneer them sometime soon as time allows.

 

I'm rambling...but just an opinion.  :)

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Well if I was to do it right, then I’d draw the panels in CAD and made them CNC cut. But then these are no longer Klipsch Tangent 400 right? :)

 

I have to many side projects in my life and a family with 2 sons (4yo and 5months old) to keep up. I try to maximise the effect and minimise the effort where possible, as I still need some time to sleep :)

 

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39 minutes ago, konrad911 said:

Well if I was to do it right, then I’d draw the panels in CAD and made them CNC cut. But then these are no longer Klipsch Tangent 400 right? :)

 

I have to many side projects in my life and a family with 2 sons (4yo and 5months old) to keep up. I try to maximise the effect and minimise the effort where possible, as I still need some time to sleep :)

 

Your minimal approach is worth the minimal $ as you can. It may even pass the smell test on mods here, which are now discarded

in a flash.

 

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I like T400s as they are, just don’t like the color. So while I’m there it’s easier for me to glue a panel with veneer made at panel shop than plain veneer. 

Why don’t sell them, maybe because why I bought them? These were within my budget and I’m DIY guy, so it’s not a challenge for me to modify those to my taste. And they sound nice, so why bother… Especially here in Europe where I’m based, in Poland exactly, there is not much in the aftermarket available, and surely I’m not in a budget for a set of new ones. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, konrad911 said:

I like T400s as they are, just don’t like the color. So while I’m there it’s easier for me to glue a panel with veneer made at panel shop than plain veneer. 

Why don’t sell them, maybe because why I bought them? These were within my budget and I’m DIY guy, so it’s not a challenge for me to modify those to my taste. And they sound nice, so why bother… Especially here in Europe where I’m based, in Poland exactly, there is not much in the aftermarket available, and surely I’m not in a budget for a set of new ones. 
 

 

 

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You can ignore OO1...

 

As I mentioned, I have some Heresy IIs and my long term plan  is to cut some Tangent sized boxes and move the parts over. I would get lower bottom end and get the mids and tweets more at ear level. It's a win/win situation.

 

Do what you need to do to enjoy the., they are good as is and will be better with stiffer cabinets, however you do it.

 

If you hang around here, we'll help you spend your money.

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I always value the view of others as this allows me te make an educated decission rather than follow the gut feeling (which sometines is aligned in the end). 
 

critesspeakers.com have sets to rebuild the xo. I can get them on eBay (easier for me) as well, should I go for it?

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7 hours ago, konrad911 said:

I always value the view of others as this allows me te make an educated decission rather than follow the gut feeling (which sometines is aligned in the end). 
 

critesspeakers.com have sets to rebuild the xo. I can get them on eBay (easier for me) as well, should I go for it?

 

Your best bet would be NOT to discuss using other brands of stuff here as they will delete your thread as they feel it takes away from their efforts.  Just sayin'.  To discuss other parts going in, you need to go to other forums...like AudioKarma, etc.  As a bonus, you will also be able to be free of some of the ID10Tic responses on this site.

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Good to know, thanks for the hint. Then let's try differently. There was an upgrade from Heresy II to Heresy III.

As Tangents have same internals as Heresy II, what would be the benefit of the upgrade to Heresy III in Tangents?

The P/N was 1006972 but it seems its out of stock everywhere... So is there an "authorised" way of upgrading T400s / H2s?

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8 hours ago, konrad911 said:

I always value the view of others as this allows me te make an educated decission rather than follow the gut feeling (which sometines is aligned in the end). 
 

 

 

I like seeing someone half way around the world enjoying these.  Post over at AudioKarma and include pics of your progress. 

 

The Heresy has a different sized cabinet, correct?  If so a no go on that. 

 

 

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