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Willsenton R300


mopardave

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Congrats to the new amp.

If your amp is sounding good to you after a good months of listening. Then you can plan on buying a WE300B.

I really want to buy a set too but I need 4 to run my amp.

I have a WE300B copy and a 300B ACME mesh tubes. They sound totally different from each other. The WE is "midrangey" with an excellent midbass and and highs while the ACME sounds very warm with  long extended bass. If I change the 12AT7 preamp tubes with lets say a raytheon blackplate, they compliment each other for the raytheon sounds bright with an excellent midrange.

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56 minutes ago, henry4841 said:

Interesting being having an EL84 amp, which is very good sounding, I was not that impressed. Great sounding, do not get me wrong, it is a SET tube amp but I have many tube amplifiers I like better. Perhaps Deckert puts some magic in his builds but with so few parts I do not see it. Tube circuits were perfected almost 100 years ago. Not much has changed since. 

 

I know you have a lot of knowledge about tube amplifiers, so maybe what I'm about to say is pointless. But could it be that the design of the Zen Triode deviates from what you're used to, which is why the Decware amplifier sounds so special? I haven't heard many amplifiers, but so far, the Zen Triode has made the biggest impression on me. More so than the Melody MDA2, Dynaco ST70II, Melody 211 everest, and the R300. I have to mention that my Zen Triode no longer has the original tubes; I've replaced them with Russian NOS 6p14p-EB tubes. As for the R300, it sounded good... but I didn't feel compelled to keep listening. I didn't keep trying different songs to see how they would sound on the amplifier. Something I did experience with the Zen Triode. It creates such a strong holographic image. Sometimes it sounds eerily realistic, which is something I find very appealing.

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5 hours ago, CCG said:

Congrats to the new amp.

If your amp is sounding good to you after a good months of listening. Then you can plan on buying a WE300B.

I really want to buy a set too but I need 4 to run my amp.

I have a WE300B copy and a 300B ACME mesh tubes. They sound totally different from each other. The WE is "midrangey" with an excellent midbass and and highs while the ACME sounds very warm with  long extended bass. If I change the 12AT7 preamp tubes with lets say a raytheon blackplate, they compliment each other for the raytheon sounds bright with an excellent midrange.

Thank you 😊

Well, like I said a few post before, a reviewer claimed that there is not much difference between a very good 300B tube and the stock tubes. 

So spending such amount of money on WE tubes is perhaps not the best thing to do 

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6 hours ago, Flevoman said:

 

I know you have a lot of knowledge about tube amplifiers, so maybe what I'm about to say is pointless. But could it be that the design of the Zen Triode deviates from what you're used to, which is why the Decware amplifier sounds so special? I haven't heard many amplifiers, but so far, the Zen Triode has made the biggest impression on me. More so than the Melody MDA2, Dynaco ST70II, Melody 211 everest, and the R300. I have to mention that my Zen Triode no longer has the original tubes; I've replaced them with Russian NOS 6p14p-EB tubes. As for the R300, it sounded good... but I didn't feel compelled to keep listening. I didn't keep trying different songs to see how they would sound on the amplifier. Something I did experience with the Zen Triode. It creates such a strong holographic image. Sometimes it sounds eerily realistic, which is something I find very appealing.

Nothing special in the published schematics I have seen. In fact Deckert took a few what I would call shortcuts, just one cathode resistor for both channels. There is a recent thread here with the schematic. 

 

Does not matter because your ears are the only thing that matters and if you favor the Zen over others that is all that matters. Enjoy both of your recent purchases. In my world my SET 300B with just two 300b tubes is the one of many I own and is the last amplifier I would want to part with. My experience, all things being equal the bigger the tube the better the sound and sound stage. There is no way of telling the iron you have in your Chinese amplifier but from my experience with Chinese tubes the iron is really decent. 

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Here is one of the schematics published on the Zen. 

 

https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZKIT1.pdf

 

Very few parts and I can see nothing spectacular about the circuit. As stated previously it is almost impossible to improve on SET amplifiers that the old timers got right decades ago. The data sheets of tubes are very thorough and one can depend on the guys knowing what they were doing and the figures are accurate. 

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Another thought, not fair comparing a Chinese SET 300b against the Zen. I am sure if you compared Decware's SET 300b against the Zen you would hear a remarkable better sound from Decware's 300b. Output transformers make a lot of difference in the sound of a SET. Steve has stated he uses Edcor iron which are excellent OPT's and there is no telling where the OPT's are made in the Wellsenton. Decent I am sure but probably not the best for those tubes. 

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11 hours ago, henry4841 said:

Another thought, not fair comparing a Chinese SET 300b against the Zen. I am sure if you compared Decware's SET 300b against the Zen you would hear a remarkable better sound from Decware's 300b. Output transformers make a lot of difference in the sound of a SET. Steve has stated he uses Edcor iron which are excellent OPT's and there is no telling where the OPT's are made in the Wellsenton. Decent I am sure but probably not the best for those tubes. 

I'm not sure if it's unfair. In terms of price, they are quite similar, if you use that as a guideline, then I find the comparison fair. But as you mentioned, the R300 is most likely built with less high-quality material than the Zen Triode. And the Decware 300B will undoubtedly sound better, but it also comes with a different price. 4k vs 1k

 

An interesting topic about upgrading the R300 for those who are interested 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/question-about-capacitor-upgrade-in-tube-amp?page=2

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In 2020, I messed around with a reisong a50 mk III 300b chinese amp. I see no one was buying. At that time the dealer said, its gonna take a few weeks to be delivered for there was a delay in the port unless if I wanna take a new amp that was been reviewed by guttenberg. Of course I'll wait for a new one and got in a few weeks. Anyways I think right after the review, it made a worldwide sale, and excellent reviews with current owners open a threading forum.

Going back a bit, when I first got the 300b amp, my impression was totally different and I notice besides its bottle-necked, it felt so under powered and sounded thin. I'm not expecting anything from a $630 purchase. So I had my friend worked on it and he practically re-designed the entire input section,the rectifier, switching the power supply from 110 to 120v and I wanted to change the output transformer end up with a Hashimoto. I think I spent and extra well over $1,000 for parts and labor. It was followed up with a change of 2- NOS 6sn7 which I have lots for spare and added a Vishay mkp coupling cap. After these surgery, it made a huge difference in the overall performance. The tonal character drastically changed with 7.8 watts of output power and it sounded like a real juicy set amp. Very holographic sound with a stunning mid-range and mid-bass in the lower part of the volume. In a few months I end up mentioning a few of the modifications to the thread, what I did. And they said I wasted alot of money and all they did is just changing the tubes and coupling caps to PIO. Long after 2-years and so many on-line excellent reviews made, They found out that the amp wasn't even putting out 3 watts. Some of them spent over thousands just in tube rolling. Since then, I haven't heard anything from them. Still have the amp today and just listening to it once in a while. Nothing better or best, I found myself listening more to a 14 watt 300b push-pull amp. Its just the type of music I listen to. These PP 300b amps are dynamite below 100hz. For me its good to have both.

 

 

   

 

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Like CCG I believe every serious music lover should have both, a really good SET and a really good PP amplifier whether one prefers tubes or SS. Single ended amps in SS are few but out there. The biggest difference in sound I notice is between the sound of an SET and a PP amplifier.

 

As far as a SET 300B, there is a reason some pay $25K for a Japanese SET 300B and it is not because they like throwing away money. I presently have over 20 working amplifiers and my SET 300B is my favorite. I can still enjoy others, none I have kept sound bad, and all sound excellent in their own way or I would not keep them. Having built an EL84 from Decware's schematic it is a very good introduction to the SET sound but way overhyped by a colorful guy on Youtube. There are better sounding SET's out there including Decware's other offerings I'm sure. No doubt Steve Deckert builds and sells a quality product and should be considered when purchasing a new amplifier. Hats of to him. And for the money the Zen is a good introduction to tube sound and could well satisfy many and be their last amplifier purchase. 

 

Then there are us that or always looking for the extra % of excellence in sound. And that cost money. Also I bet I could improve the sound of the Willenston for not much money if the iron is somewhat decent. There has to be cost cut considerations for a 4 tube 300B SET at that price even coming from China. 

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The R300 doesn't have the best 300B tubes. And probably there have been budgetary choices made regarding the construction of the amplifier. What is a rough estimate of the percentage of improvement that could be achieved by using good tubes and quality electronics?

 

The reason I'm asking this is because I'm wondering, now that I've heard an affordable SET 300B amplifier, if this is the type of sound I can expect from a SET 300B.

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Hard to tell and best to consult someone in your local tech so you can tell him exactly the sound youre looking for. Those high-end SE has a golden holographic sound that cannot just be touched by other amps just like what you'll hear in this video. Going back to your amp, there are other options too.

There are lots of super nice amps in Europe. Infact we Americans sometimes wish we had more selections here rather than getting not the best of Europe and Japanese. Were born to innovate almost anything here but its not happening right now and hopefully in  the future. 

I'd just simply keep on listening to the amp till one day you'll decide wether you keep it or trade it with another amp. Sounds like youll get your money back in what you paid for.

In this video, both amp sounds great. Too perfect for my listening. But the real question is, how will it sound when I listen to the type of music that I prefer. It will definitely change the chemistry and the whole outcome of this demo.
 

 

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13 hours ago, CCG said:

In 2020, I messed around with a reisong a50 mk III 300b chinese amp. I see no one was buying. At that time the dealer said, its gonna take a few weeks to be delivered for there was a delay in the port unless if I wanna take a new amp that was been reviewed by guttenberg. Of course I'll wait for a new one and got in a few weeks. Anyways I think right after the review, it made a worldwide sale, and excellent reviews with current owners open a threading forum.

Going back a bit, when I first got the 300b amp, my impression was totally different and I notice besides its bottle-necked, it felt so under powered and sounded thin. I'm not expecting anything from a $630 purchase. So I had my friend worked on it and he practically re-designed the entire input section,the rectifier, switching the power supply from 110 to 120v and I wanted to change the output transformer end up with a Hashimoto. I think I spent and extra well over $1,000 for parts and labor. It was followed up with a change of 2- NOS 6sn7 which I have lots for spare and added a Vishay mkp coupling cap. After these surgery, it made a huge difference in the overall performance. The tonal character drastically changed with 7.8 watts of output power and it sounded like a real juicy set amp. Very holographic sound with a stunning mid-range and mid-bass in the lower part of the volume. In a few months I end up mentioning a few of the modifications to the thread, what I did. And they said I wasted alot of money and all they did is just changing the tubes and coupling caps to PIO. Long after 2-years and so many on-line excellent reviews made, They found out that the amp wasn't even putting out 3 watts. Some of them spent over thousands just in tube rolling. Since then, I haven't heard anything from them. Still have the amp today and just listening to it once in a while. Nothing better or best, I found myself listening more to a 14 watt 300b push-pull amp. Its just the type of music I listen to. These PP 300b amps are dynamite in below below 100hz. For me its good to have both.

 

 

   

 

You should check out the mods Stephany made to a Reisong 50mk over on AudioKarma or the vid she has on youtube. She brought that amp to live with a true 8w.

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On 5/25/2023 at 4:59 PM, Flevoman said:

 

 
 

I managed to get my hands on a 4-month-old R300 tonight. I've connected it to my Cornwall 4 speakers, and I'm currently listening to it. After two hours of listening, my initial impression is that it sounds good, but not exceptional.. no WOW feeling so far. The soundstage is well-defined, and the sound feels slightly more expansive compared to my Decware Zen Triode. However, I do notice some sharper edges in the vocals. The Decware Zen Triode, in my opinion, is slightly more musical and creates a more holographic image that I find very appealing. It's worth mentioning that the R300 still has its original set of tubes.

 
 

I have been following a guy over on AudioKarma as he has done a few mods on this amp and tube rolling as well.  (Willsenton 300b).    The first tube i switched out was the original Willsenton 300b for some Gold Lion 300b. Nice improvement. Not day and night thou, but an improvement for sure.  Then the 2 pre amp tubes were switched for some china tubes 6n8p with metal base. Another improvement. Then the 6SL7 for a Tung-sol 6su7 with gold pins, not as good as the original tube yet, but letting it burn it to see.  Now i start on the Retifiers.  Currently have a 5u4gb jan phillips and it is better than the original tubes. Today i will be trying some Linlai rectifiers.   Will see.   Gonna do some of these mods on the amp that the gentleman over on AudioKarma has done.   His project is still in progress.

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On 4/10/2023 at 9:30 AM, mopardave said:

I just purchased this amp.  It is barely used and comes with a full set of upgraded tubes including the GL 300b.  I watched and read all reviews and it looks like it might be a decent 300b for the money(1500).  I have been told they are made in the same factory as PrimeLuna and Cayin, but im not sure.   Either way good reviews and not too expensive introduction into 300b.  

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willsenton r300.jpg

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Willsenton R300B SE Integrated Amp #2 | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

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3 hours ago, mopardave said:

Thank you for sharing your experience. I'd be happy to discuss what works or doesn't work regarding updates. I did come across this post before, and it is certainly interesting to follow, although it seems like that person focuses a lot on the amplifier.

 

However, I'm also interested in hearing about the modifications you are planning to make. Can you perhaps describe what difference you hear with changing the tubes? Have you seen the link I posted earlier? There's someone who worked on the capacitors and claims to have achieved excellent results. Personally, I have ordered two different preamp tubes that, according to another topic, should sound better. I should be receiving them on Friday, hopefully. The TAD 6SN7GT...

Have you been able to compare the performance of the R300 to other SET 300B amplifiers?

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Kinda expensive comparing SET 300B amps. I have not priced a well made 300B's in a few years but back then they were around $2,500 and since inflation I would expect the price to increase. From my limited understanding the output transformers play a big part in getting quality sound from a SET and especially a 300B. My only experience is with well reviewed Edcors, Hammond and Electron One iron which are middle of the road when it comes to OPT's. The technical side of me thinks OPT's are no more than wire wrapped around an iron core but many put a lot of emphasis on them. I am sure cost cuts were made in the iron on the Willseton but on the two Chinese kit amps iron I have built they looked and sound really good to my old ears even if made in China. Positively not name brand iron but decent for what the kits cost which I am sure applies to the Willsenton as well. The Willsenton wound probably benefit from some Nichicon capacitors throughout as well as some modifications on the design but who knows where the design came from. A SET is so simple in circuits it should not be a problem for a decent technician to understand the schematic it is built from.  

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On 5/26/2023 at 5:57 AM, CCG said:

Congrats to the new amp.

If your amp is sounding good to you after a good months of listening. Then you can plan on buying a WE300B.

I really want to buy a set too but I need 4 to run my amp.

I have a WE300B copy and a 300B ACME mesh tubes. They sound totally different from each other. The WE is "midrangey" with an excellent midbass and and highs while the ACME sounds very warm with  long extended bass. If I change the 12AT7 preamp tubes with lets say a raytheon blackplate, they compliment each other for the raytheon sounds bright with an excellent midrange.

Good Case for Bi- Amp

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