PhilH Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 We do realize it is our responsibility, as a manufacturer, to reduce and eliminate availibility of our products on the "grey market". As we have mentioned before, we have been working to do that (over a dozen dealers terminated to date for transshipping to these sites or selling out of market on their own). Due to both the extreme popularity of the Klipsch brand and the ability of the resellers to manipulate people to obtain product, our efforts are ongoing in this area. I want to clarify to those of you who purchase from these resellers my statement I previously made. First, "bottom feeders" was not my (or anyone's at Klipsch) terminology to describe you. There are two classifications of people who buy "grey market". First, there are those who do not know they are buying from resellers, and are duped into believing they are buying from factory authorized, factory stocked and factory supported merchants. They are duped into this thinking because the majority of resellers use lies and statements to this effect when they "sell" to these people. Their relationship with their customers starts with deception and word twisting. Since some of their customers are interested in our products, they are also our customers and we do not want our customers treated this way. We do not want our products represented this way. Second, there are those, like several on this bb, who know what type of seller they are buying from, know how the merchandise is obtained, and are willing to take the chances (such as no factory warranty, etc.)to save a few bucks. We, fortunately, live in a free society to make that choice if we desire to. We, as a manufacturer, feel that there must be an honest relationship between buyer and seller from the outset, feel that the buyer should have the opportunity to physically compare and audition the products they are looking to purchase in a proper environment, and feel that the seller should be there to take the responsibility of advising that customer and professionally handling any questions or problems that may arise during and after the transaction. The "grey market" does not allow all these opportunities and does allow (through being "faceless") much more of an opportunity for deception and lack of customer service. Does it cost more to have a physical showroom, salespeople trained in products and customer service, a service department, an inventory, etc.? Of course it does, but we feel this is the best environment for a customer to make a proper decision for them from the myriads of choices of both products and installation and use of those products available to them today. If the "grey market" prevails, we feel that all types of customers will suffer, in the long run. PhilH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB5M Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Thanks Phil, that was well stated..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REFSELLER Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Phil, is there any truth to the rumor that Sound Advice will continue to carry Klipsch?...if so, what are the printable details and why in some tweeter affiliates and not others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Ref, Shovel in hand. What actions/solutions/pressures are the retailer proposing or applying to get the manufacturers to take action? Or are the retailers simply blaming the consumer. Not trying to direct or redirect blame just trying to understand all sides. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REFSELLER Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Scott, WHAT WE have done is to simply stop carrying lines that are heavily promoted on-line at severe discounts....It doesn't make sense for our salespeople to demo a product that the customer can find from a wharehouse at a severe discount....When a customer recently asked me why we don't carry "brand x", I said " do you own any of their products ?"...he said yes and I asked where he purchased it .He stated that he had found it on-line and I said, "that's why!" ...that company will no longer get a listen in my store... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Moderators, I would like to say thank you for this little conversation and your input and feedback. You guys are truly living up to the Klipsch reputation and quality. Please understand my comments may sound as if I am attacking Klipsch which I am not just sharing my recent experiences and offering reason why, from a consumers view, the greay market is popular. Thank you for letting my horrible typing and comments reside on your server for others to see them. OK have to get back to debating with Ref. he does a crappy job of sugar coating his feeling. thanks again Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Ref, Back to my other post about the manfacturers not really caring and wholesaling practices. What about this ideology. We can produce 1000 widgets costing $1 each, wholesale for $3. or We can produce 1500 widets costing $.75, wholesale for $3. Question. What are we going to do with the extra 500? We will use our retailers as our show room and let them absord the cost for resources while we sell the www.fatguyinNY.com the remainder for $2.50 where he can sit at home stuffing his fat face with greasey hamburgs while people are ordering the widgets over the internet and nearly half the cost. Ouch? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REFSELLER Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 ultimately it will be the audio entusiasts who will suffer because the only gear that will be "auditioned" by mid to hi end retailers will be gear that is HEAVILY protected in it's distribution, and the gear that is available only on-line and in low-end "no-proper-demo-available" mass merchants like bb and cc will begin to offer more and more features and attractive prices, but less and less quality...so , dig your own grave... ///////////////////// I have repeatedly stated that I agree with your premise regarding the mnfgrs, I would just like to hear whether or not you agree with the one above?...ultimately it will be you the consumer who suffers...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 ---------------- On 3/20/2003 8:01:55 PM REFSELLER wrote: Scott, WHAT WE have done is to simply stop carrying lines that are heavily promoted on-line at severe discounts....It doesn't make sense for our salespeople to demo a product that the customer can find from a wharehouse at a severe discount....When a customer recently asked me why we don't carry "brand x", I said " do you own any of their products ?"...he said yes and I asked where he purchased it .He stated that he had found it on-line and I said, "that's why!" ...that company will no longer get a listen in my store... ---------------- Oh I hate doing this. So your establishment stops carrying other www.fatguyinNY.com brands why is Klipsch so different and up until now still on your sales floor? And if you say the above is true why are you so upset about Klipsch's new distribution ideas? Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Blue Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I appreciate learning about distribution issues here, if nothing else--it helps me to understand what's going on behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I wonder if people are scared to go to independent audio stores. It feels like going into a industrial supply shop to buy something. Unless you are going to buy 5 miles of fence or 400 gallons of muratic acid, it seems like you are not welcome. I don't feel that way, but if someone wants to buy a pair of RF-3II's, they might be uncomforatable in a independent place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Kenratboy, That is the exact problem I ran into when the HT adventure started. Walking into to several shops the treatment was the same. Not spending the big buck? Let me validate your parking and send you on your way. This is where Klipsch will be moving into. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REFSELLER Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 why is Klipsch so different and up until now still on your sales floor? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're not and they probably won't be soon....(I don't make that call, but most salespeople will probably be less anxious to support them now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomL Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 MY store is already selling out the "back door" cause they think that "turns" are the only way they can make a buck with all the product showing up so cheap on-line...I don't think will carry just the REF's for very long.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Since the subject of the "grey market" has alluded to possible reasons for the recent distribution change by Klipsch, I want to make sure one rumor here is not carried forward. Klipsch's decision to discontinue it's relationship with Tweeter had nothing to do with "grey market" sales. PhilH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzoz01 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Personally, I couldn't agree with REFseller more. I'm a junior in college and where I go to school there isn't a local Klipsch dealer for 100 miles. The only reason I go home is so I can go to the local Audio King (a division of Ultimate Electronics) so I can drool over the RF7 speakers. I've owned many different speakers, all of them Klipsch, and always taken pride in knowing that my speakers were not "the cheap crap they sell at Best Buy," like my roomates had. I think that the move to Best Buy will cause a loss of brand idenity, as Klipsch will no longer be a prized high end name, but a mass marketed brand sold by some pimply little kid at best buy who has no idea what he's selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomL Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 The problem is with all the belt tightening out there people will believe that the Ref's aren't worth the cost diff over the synergys if they can't hear the 2 lines side-by-side.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzoz01 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I talked to a guy from Audio King yesterday, and he said the new Klipsch line is going to be lower end stuff to somewhat replace the synergy line and when the synergy line moved to best buy it would be a completely different speaker from the current line. I was wondering how much of that is true and also, if the new refrence line is just adding some scaled down models, it won't mean as much to have refrence speakers. Are the new .5s going to have the same trademark copper cones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzoz01 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Uncomfortable in an independent place? I feel more welcome in my local audio/ video store then best buy or circut city. I can go into Audio King and buy 10ft of speaker wire and i get better service then I would going into bb and spending $1000. It may cost a little more, but I love the piece of mind from buying from a local dealer. They're on commission, so they get paid to care. They won't try to up-sale you, or you'll bring it back and buy from someone else and they get screwed out of commission. Also they care enough to help you find the system that suits your needs and budget, employees at bb not only don't give a crap about you, but are really only concerned with selling you their little extended service plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 dont mind me, just cleaning house. great idea minn-male! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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