La Scala AL6 Giveaway-Fundraising Campaign (9/29/24 Major Update)

[jjptkd]

9 hours ago, Deang said:

You are listed as an Officer/Trustee. How are you allowed to participate?

 

It makes more sense to raffle them again.

 

I wasn’t inferring anything was rigged, just that I didn’t understand the decision to buy tickets, knowing ahead of time you’re not going to keep them. 

 

 I agree with this- seems like a conflict of interest especially seeing how they were "gifted back" for resale. You want to support the museum but don't want the speakers? easy, make a donation and let others have a chance who truly want the speakers otherwise it appears like a money grab even if it isn't. Worried about optics and the museums integrity / reputation? stop doing stuff like this.

[Imakeller]

I don't want to add any more drama to this thread, but it's pretty standard practice that "insiders" are not eligible to win contests, and for good reason.  It erodes trust in organizations and individuals, raises doubts about fairness, and can actually dampen enthusiasm ("why should I try when an insider is going to win it anyway").  You can try to go to extreme measures to address those downsides (and some would never be satisfied), but it's just best to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.  What would people think if the President of Powerball happened to win the Powerball?  They can't because they're not eligible, but it's the same thing people would think if management, a trustee, a director, or somebody involved in any contest, won it.  If insiders want to financially support the museum they should donate directly, not through a contest.

[Imakeller]

9 hours ago, Deang said:

It makes more sense to raffle them again.

 

I'd say "the powers that be" have a lot to talk about now about how to proceed!  Lots of options.  I'm coming around to your suggestion as being a good one.  Whether (1) a straight re-draw, (2) a whole second raffle from scratch, or (3) a hybrid where the original entries are included and there's a window to buy more tickets (and make insiders ineligible for round two).  I dunno.  I'd like to see the Museum get to make more money though.  If there were any opportunity to buy tickets for a second raffle I certainly would.

[michaelwjones]

1 hour ago, Imakeller said:

I don't want to add any more drama to this thread…

Then why two posts?

[michaelwjones]

Let’s see if I understand this: I want to support the Museum, so I buy tickets for the drawing. I win and contribute the speakers to the Museum so they can sell them to further support the Museum. Yup, sounds like a money grab to me…

 

Get real people, you didn’t win but supported the Museum. BTW, I didn’t win either. And I still support the museum.

[seti]

10 hours ago, Deang said:

You are listed as an Officer/Trustee. How are you allowed to participate?

 

It makes more sense to raffle them again.

 

I wasn’t inferring anything was rigged, just that I didn’t understand the decision to buy tickets, knowing ahead of time you’re not going to keep them. 

 

 

We are allowed to support the museum through the same process as everyone else. I support every fundraiser of the museum. I purchase from our visitor center gift shop when in Hope, online store, brick campaign, auctions, and also buy tickets to all our events whether I can make attend or not. I don't see a problem.. I would think it more strange if we didn't put our money where our mouth is. The museum is not rich and needs all the help it can get.

 

We have a new free fundraising platform for the museum that includes a digital ticket system and auction system that we have been testing. If it works out this all our processes will be much more streamlined. The feature I like best is the ability to do online streaming of classes and events from Hope. The hard part will be getting a stable connection to do this. This will be part of the testing.

 

To everyone who came to Hope or supported the museum through buying from our giftshops or tickets or campaigns thank you so much for all your support. The museum would not exist without you...

 

 

 

https://boardsource.org/resources/personal-contributions/

 

 

 

 

[yamahaSHO]

12 hours ago, Deang said:

You are listed as an Officer/Trustee. How are you allowed to participate?

 

It makes more sense to raffle them again.

 

I wasn’t inferring anything was rigged, just that I didn’t understand the decision to buy tickets, knowing ahead of time you’re not going to keep them. 

 

I never expect to win as I never win anything, but it is a bit irritating to see how this went.  I'm not sure I'd try to play the raffle again. 

 

[Zen Traveler]

1 hour ago, michaelwjones said:

Get real people, you didn’t win but supported the Museum. BTW, I didn’t win either....

Maybe get rid of the raffle...The problem is we have relatively a small group of aficionados and some folks thought they had a better chance of winning and didn't realize the board and bigger donors were competing as well...Kinda like Bill Gates supporting Government by purchasiing tickets to the Lottery -- If he wins then folks don't feel as good about their participation because it seems to be rigged. That's my take. 

[DeanG Crossovers]

JC and Michael make valid points. I hadn’t considered that some (or many) prioritized support for the museum over possibly winning the La Scalas. I’m 65 and no longer have the disposable income for extravagant purchases - so yeah, I was in the latter camp.

[Travis In Austin]

6 hours ago, Imakeller said:

I don't want to add any more drama to this thread, but it's pretty standard practice that "insiders" are not eligible to win contests, and for good reason.  It erodes trust in organizations and individuals, raises doubts about fairness, and can actually dampen enthusiasm ("why should I try when an insider is going to win it anyway").  You can try to go to extreme measures to address those downsides (and some would never be satisfied), but it's just best to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.  What would people think if the President of Powerball happened to win the Powerball?  They can't because they're not eligible, but it's the same thing people would think if management, a trustee, a director, or somebody involved in any contest, won it.  If insiders want to financially support the museum they should donate directly, not through a contest.

That's true, for game shows, grocery store games, fast food chain games, and all things commercial. Employees are excluded, the companies who make the scratch-off tickets, and their employees, are excluded, 

 

Non-profit charitable organizations routinely allow Directors, Trustees, Officers, and members to participate in auctions, giveaways, drawings, and buying entry tickets at the annual dinner. They are all just very careful that no entrant is involved in the process of the auction, giveaway, or drawing if it's entries. Rotary dinners, Y-Not Night (YMCA), Duck's Unlimited, Harry Ransome Museum Dinner, Opera Society, Dell Children's Hospital Dinner, HS Football Booster Raffel, and even the Austin Police Officer's Ball all allow Board Members/Officers to enter or participate. They just wall off entrants from any involvement in auction or drawing. 

 

Board Members and Officers have been in every drawing we have had and nobody said a word. 

 

There's a reason for that, they are all volunteer boards

 

 

[Imakeller]

30 minutes ago, Travis In Austin said:

That's true, for game shows, grocery store games, fast food chain games, and all things commercial. Employees are excluded, the companies who make the scratch-off tickets, and their employees, are excluded, 

 

Non-profit charitable organizations routinely allow Directors, Trustees, Officers, and members to participate in auctions, giveaways, drawings, and buying entry tickets at the annual dinner. They are all just very careful that no entrant is involved in the process of the auction, giveaway, or drawing if it's entries. Rotary dinners, Y-Not Night (YMCA), Duck's Unlimited, Harry Ransome Museum Dinner, Opera Society, Dell Children's Hospital Dinner, HS Football Booster Raffel, and even the Austin Police Officer's Ball all allow Board Members/Officers to enter or participate. They just wall off entrants from any involvement in auction or drawing. 

 

Board Members and Officers have been in every drawing we have had and nobody said a word. 

 

There's a reason for that, they are all volunteer boards

 

 

 

I hear you, Travis, and I appreciate your reply.  I just disagree.  Insiders participating in door prizes at the annual dinner, no biggie.  Insiders participating in a traditional, open auction (going once, going twice, three times, sold), where the highest bid wins, okay.  Insiders (even including spouses and relatives) participating in a public fundraising raffle for a $20k pair of speakers?  That's a bad policy decision and should be changed IMO. 

 

With that being said, I accept that I don't get to make the rules.  I will be looking forward to the decision about what happens next with those truly incredible AL6's.  If there's a free and fair opportunity to get another chance at those La Scalas and further support the Museum, I'm in!

[Travis In Austin]

3 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

Maybe get rid of the raffle...The problem is we have relatively a small group of aficionados and some folks thought they had a better chance of winning and didn't realize the board and bigger donors were competing as well...Kinda like Bill Gates supporting Government by purchasiing tickets to the Lottery -- If he wins then folks don't feel as good about their participation because it seems to be rigged. That's my take. 

I always value your insight, many times a perspective I have not considered, or you are being a beacon when many become lost in the fog or dust* that surrounds us.

 

Seems to be two issues. One was that the person drawn "didn't want them" and donated them back and people not understanding why. I think that sorted it's way out and people understand why people would be crazy/alteuristic enough to do that. The economics of altruism is a very complex subject, but even the tax code recognizes this and incentivizes the donation of items to non-profits, particularly museums. 

 

The second issue that sprung up later was board members/officers not being ineligible to participate. They have not been ineligible in all 3 drawings we have had, they just didn't win. It was mentioned in the Khorn drawing that Schu ended up winning, I volunteered not to enter that drawing for the Birthday Bash Khorns so that there wouldn't be a question as to the integrity of the drawing. 

 

Of course when you do that you are pretty much stuck with that on all future drawings - forever ineligible. 

 

I certainly didn't anticipate the concerns that were raised on this one. The integrity of the drawing was my primary concern, so probably overlooked many of these things that were never a concern before (more in post below). 

 

I agree with you, a drawing for donors or sponsors is fraught with peril and probably not a good idea going forward. The goal was to have everyone be able to participate, at whatever level, with some thanks, fun, and excitement for those donating to the Museum.  

 

I'm just one vote (of nine), but I will certainly pass this along, but it's probably not going to happen for the foreseeable future. 

 

Travis

 

 

 

 

[Imakeller]

On 11/17/2024 at 12:23 AM, Travis In Austin said:

Roy, JC, Bill and Mark will regroup next week and they will announce the plan on the sale of them. 

 

Hi Travis,

Any update on this?  Thank you.

[Travis In Austin]

On 12/3/2024 at 4:46 PM, Imakeller said:

 

Hi Travis,

Any update on this?  Thank you.

Yes, I now have the info., we are going to silent auction them, the final date will be around March 18. I will post the link to the thread with more details. 

[Schu]

I got a link via email... didn't we already put this fundraiser to bed?

your asking for more funding?

[Schu]

I see what happened now...

here is a perspective, and Auction is not going to solve issues that involve inequities... if anything, it will exacerbate those same inequities and concentrate the wealth.

the best way, is the way you've been doing it, is via raffle, and that is tax deductible.

 

if all of our capital was used to help run the last raffle, and that raffle was won by an altruistic individual that willed the item back to the museum, the ONLY that should be considered, is rerunning the raffle with the same tickets... or pull the speakers and put them in the museum.

 

The second option is one that is going to leave MANY questions unanswered... but I don't think anyone is going to have the opinion that something foul is afoot.

[Travis In Austin]

5 hours ago, Schu said:

I got a link via email... didn't we already put this fundraiser to bed?

your asking for more funding?

We're a non-profit 501(c)(3), like all nonprofits (except maybe the Getty Museum) we ask for donations, grants, funding, and support  24/7, 365. 

 

5 hours ago, Schu said:

see what happened now...

here is a perspective, and Auction is not going to solve issues that involve inequities... if anything, it will exacerbate those same inequities and concentrate the wealth.

the best way, is the way you've been doing it, is via raffle, and that is tax deductible.

 

Umm, I'm not understanding. What inequities? Concentration of wealth? Whose? The giveaway was run in exactly the same way as when you won the Preproductoin pair of Klipschorn Cherry AK6 as part of the Birthday bash a couple of years ago. Everyone had an opportunity to purchase whatever levels of sponsorship they wanted. 

 

Our Mission and Vision is to operate the Museum, when we get that all completed and funding to operate in perpetuity we can start to focus on world peace and income equality.

 

 

5 hours ago, Schu said:

If all of our capital was used to help run the last raffle, and that raffle was won by an altruistic individual that willed the item back to the museum, the ONLY that should be considered, is rerunning the raffle with the same tickets... or pull the speakers and put them in the museum.

 

Not sure I'm following the logic here. So you won the Ak6  Klipschorns and after a year decided to get rid of them and put them up for sale, but if you had decided that you wanted to donate them back to the Museum we could only put them on display, or rerun the drawing, not auction or sell them? 

 

Would it make people feel better if the altruistic individual sold them on Audiogon, or Garage Sale, etc. and then donated the money to the Museum? In this case, the altruist donated them back with the specific directive to run them in an auction. 

 

The donor of an item to a 501(c)(3) determines, what, if any conditions there are on a donation - it's called a "restricted donation." If we don't/can't follow the conditions, we have to offer to return the item. 

 

5 hours ago, Schu said:

The second option is one that is going to leave MANY questions unanswered.

 

What's the second option? What's the first option, re-running the drawing? It's not an option as it's inconsistent with the fiduciary obligations of the Board. 

[Travis In Austin]

I will put the LINK to the Auction site information [Here} when it's ready to go.

[Travis In Austin]