The story of a new Underground Jubilee owner

[Shakeydeal]

[mark1101]

What I like is a hard ceiling and not too high.  I think that can help prevent over damping.

[Flevoman]

Thanks for your responses. So from what I’m hearing, it’s going to be more a case of trial and error.

 

What are your experiences or opinions on using rock wool as a material for absorption? On YouTube or the internet, this product is often discouraged, but every time it’s a company saying this, and they happen to offer a solution in the form of very expensive acoustic panels from their own range 😏

 

It looks good, @Shakeydeal. How did you come up with this approach? Did you just start experimenting, or is there some measurement and logic behind it?

[KT88]

I believe from experience that the sound is not only dependent on damping or absorbing measures. This is certainly an important contribution. I would like to point out something else that I have experienced myself in all clarity. I mean the composition of the walls, the floor and the ceiling. The best sound I ever had in terms of the room was in the basement of my parents' house when I was a teenager and still living at home. When I was 15, I built my first bass and midrange horns with a friend of mine who was 17. They were backloaded so-called Waldorf Astoria horns, we had halved them... so only one driver (not two next to each other like in the original Waldorf bass horn), but the length of the horn remained the same. The basement room had a screed floor and very thick walls made of natural stone, large granite blocks. In addition, the weight of the whole relatively large house was on these basement walls, everything was very solid. I have never heard such a precise sound with absolutely dry low bass and clear but never sterile mids anywhere else. The basement windows were very small, nothing was resonating. The ceiling was relatively low and covered with polystyrene (now unthinkable with today's fire safety regulations). There was a carpeted floor. In short, it was a very transparent sound that I have never heard in a normal living room. It is very impressive what a bad influence thinner walls can have (as many people have them) because they can resonate and muddy everything.

 

In our current apartment in Cologne, it is mediocre, not the worst and not the best. The house is from 1910 and very large with four floors and we live on the first floor, one flight of stairs above the street, with all the weight of the upper stories on the walls. A few years ago, we moved books from another room into the living room. It is in the corner opposite the left speaker. Believe it or not, since the books have been there, ugly boom points have disappeared. In short, it's not just the treatment of a room, but also the substance of the walls, etc., which can have a very positive or negative influence on the sound. I know that the passage between the rooms (in the photo) is a very negative element for the sound, but for my point here it is not important.

 

 

 

 

[Schu]

Like the body of a acoustic guitar, or other hollow bodied acoustic instrument, a room is part of the sound signature... and the tone woods used do indeed change the timbre and sound.

 

I am also open ended on one side like your room... it's not ideal, but it works.

[babadono]

Rockwool is an excellent sound absorption option. That is what all my panels are made with. My opinion get ones thick enough to help with bass. And I know it is not popular amongst audiophiles but so what if you over dampen ...just add reverb electronically. That is what is done in the recordings you listen to so why not?

 

[imeiamme]

My view just forward of the chair. At its flanks. Two solid blocks of wood on the ceiling. Angled off? Yes the left diverts into wall absorption. 
now the righ break it in half make gulley into sound absorption. On back right wall. Both leaning left.

 

left sound absorber taller wider. Back panel above fire pit / fire place. Can have ornate lattice work over sound absorbers separated in distance to diffuse sound. 
 

window treatment. Black out curtains. Basically tapestries with another curtain beneath. Loosing sound… I see daylight. 
 

two area rugs before chair.

 

a repeating set of gargoyles in back corne wall to ceilings area. Break it up? OR  Crown mold upside down. Hang art painting hooks. Dangle carpet squares or floor tiles? Smaller is shower tiles and carpet samples.

[imeiamme]

On 8/16/2024 at 6:16 PM, Shakeydeal said:

 

[Schu]

9 hours ago, imeiamme said:

My view just forward of the chair. At its flanks. Two solid blocks of wood on the ceiling. Angled off? Yes the left diverts into wall absorption. 
now the righ break it in half make gulley into sound absorption. On back right wall. Both leaning left.

 

 

flanks? do you mean First Reflection points? if so, that position is the most important point, with the back wall being second. your room looks as if it could use some sound cloud panels because of the low flat parallel ceiling layout. this is my next room mod if I ever get around to it... my room has only four parallel surfaces as the ceiling is slanted in a couple angles and is also very tall at 9' in the front and over 13' in the back... like an inverse stadium.

 

once again, I am not a fan of absorption on the front wall because of first hand experience of using panels in that placement and what happens to the sound stage and the center image. to my ears, it is effective at reflection reduction, but it also flattens the image and removes dimensional aspects of that center image. It does clean up the transients though.

 

overall you have an extremely good start, and I am sure you are very happy.

[Flevoman]

@KT88 If I look at the photo closely, the bookshelf is not in the room where the speakers are but on a wall behind it. It's remarkable that this makes an audible difference. I understand the reason why, but I would never have expected this to make an audible difference beforehand.

 

On 8/18/2024 at 4:16 PM, Schu said:

once again, I am not a fan of absorption on the front wall because of first hand experience of using panels in that placement and what happens to the sound stage and the center image. to my ears, it is effective at reflection reduction, but it also flattens the image and removes dimensional aspects of that center image. It does clean up the transients though.

 

If you’re not going to use absorption on the front wall, what will you use instead? Diffusers, or do you prefer to leave that wall completely untreated? And what’s your opinion on using absorption directly behind the speakers to absorb unwanted rear radiation?

[imeiamme]

Pretty sure the answer was given to us. The ceiling is slanted from 9 ft to a whopping 13 in the back. Absorbers cut transients. O.K. But in that back ceiling near the wall. Going from ceiling to floor. The ATMOS speakers. Filling in for any loss. ATMOS Speakers just behind the wooden blocks on the ceiling after fan.
 

usually.the absorption is hanging down. Cutting down on overall sound. But locking sound within that area. This..goes right to the carpet. Dreaded on impact. 
 

you now have two areas. If absorbers are at issue. Control the reflection back to the center seat by adding something over the absorbing surface. 
 

On 8/18/2024 at 10:16 AM, Schu said:

flanks? do you mean First Reflection points? if so, that position is the most important point, with the back wall being second. your room looks as if it could use some sound cloud panels because of the low flat parallel ceiling layout. this is my next room mod if I ever get around to it... my room has only four parallel surfaces as the ceiling is slanted in a couple angles and is also very tall at 9' in the front and over 13' in the back... like an inverse stadium.

 

I would control humidity. So many things on ceiling. Caution for it to all come down. Right block can mount ATMOS to the wood actually. 3 sides - wood, wood, shag carpet + ATMOS speaker.

[imeiamme]

@Flevomanare those the same rooms? I default to your knowledge. I thought they were different setups.

[Flevoman]

@imeiamme I have no idea. This isn't my room, actually 😉. And I don't use Atmos speakers but the Underground Jubilee.

[Shakeydeal]

21 hours ago, Flevoman said:

@KT88 If I look at the photo closely, the bookshelf is not in the room where the speakers are but on a wall behind it. It's remarkable that this makes an audible difference. I understand the reason why, but I would never have expected this to make an audible difference beforehand.

 

 

If you’re not going to use absorption on the front wall, what will you use instead? Diffusers, or do you prefer to leave that wall completely untreated? And what’s your opinion on using absorption directly behind the speakers to absorb unwanted rear radiation?

 

I have the option of using diffusors or absorption on the wall behind the speakers. I tried both and slightly prefer absorption there and a combination of absorption and diffusion at the first sidewall reflection points.

[Flevoman]

15 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

I have the option of using diffusors or absorption on the wall behind the speakers. I tried both and slightly prefer absorption there and a combination of absorption and diffusion at the first sidewall reflection points.

 

Interestingly, I would instinctively expect the audible difference between diffusers and absorbers to be significant.

 

I'm currently thinking 

of addressing the wall behind the speakers. I’m considering placing a thick band of rockwool absorption directly behind the speakers, from floor to ceiling (about 1 meter wide). Between these absorption strips, I plan to place wide wooden slats with beveled edges, alternating the beveled sides (creating a strip about 2 meters wide). I expect the wood will partially absorb sound, and the beveled edges will have a sort of diffusion effect. I was hoping to find more dos and don'ts because right now, the effect will be a complete guess.

 

 

[Dave MacKay]

Following with interest.

[KT88]

@Flevoman are the whiskey bottles in the Jubilees in your avatar a kind of analog shelf adjustment? 🙂

[Shakeydeal]

1 minute ago, KT88 said:

@Flevoman are the whiskey bottles in the Jubilees in your avatar a kind of analog shelf adjustment? 🙂

 

Now that's a tweak I can certainly get behind......

[Flevoman]

It was the most logical thing I could think of to justify the UJ to my girlfriend. How functional they are! 😇

[Shakeydeal]

The beauty of it is until you put that ring on the finger, you don't have to justify anything.....