Bigdnfay1 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 What is the highest Hz I can hope for out of a LaScala bass bin? I know it is said to go from 50 hz to 400 hz. Is there anything left on top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 I thought it went a bit higher than 400Hz. I know the KHorn is only 400Hz. My ALK ES crossovers for my LaScalas are designed/built at 500Hz. If you are using the AA crossover which was in both at a time for a while then I would think that yes it is crossed at 400Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 I am not sure if I understand this correctly, but I don’t think you want to go too high in a bass bin ? From what I have heard, vocals coming out of a bass bin don’t sound right. I encourage all thoughts on this. IF(!) I understand the workings of the various woofer filters used in Klipsch crossovers, the second order 4mH/140uF combination used in the AL-3 results in a 212Hz cross and the 4mH/100uF combination used in the AK-3 Klipschorn results in a 251Hz cross. But, the Klipschorn bass bin dies out sooner than a La Scala so the vocals go with it, in effect a much steeper slope. I’ve been playing with different crossover designs on my La Scalas and have found the AK-3 woofer filter to be the limit before vocals get muddy, it also seems to really help crossing the squawker as low as possible. But the conundrum here, is I’ve heard Belles (with a bass bin that extends to 500Hz) and did not find them muddy in the least. I also own and enjoy Peavey FH-1 bins that go solidly up to 500hz, and sound great, albeit with crossovers designed for the La Scala and Khorn - so, still crossing much lower than the limit. Most recently I built an ALK CSW clone with the standard values (3mH/80uF - 325Hz and 33uF - 600Hz) to try on my La Scalas and it left me flat. Not at all worth it. After I jumpered another 20uF on the woofer for 290Hz and 13uF on the 33uF for a 430-ish Hz cross it sounds WAY better, to me. Almost as nice as the ALK design for the Khorn - it uses a 54uF cap to cross from the squawker around 370 Hz and the AK-3 woofer filter. Once again, all thoughts are welcome here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted September 4 Moderators Share Posted September 4 11 hours ago, babadono said: If you are using the AA crossover which was in both at a time for a while then I would think that yes it is crossed at 400Hz. It's been a long time, I don't remember but glad you said 400. I remember asking this a long time ago for something I was wanting to put together and still use. I asked because I put a split LaScala top with MWM bass bins on the bottom, one bin for each top. AA crossovers and they sound really good in the workshop, listen to them almost every day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboxler Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 18 hours ago, geoff. said: I am not sure if I understand this correctly, but I don’t think you want to go too high in a bass bin ? From what I have heard, vocals coming out of a bass bin don’t sound right. I encourage all thoughts on this. IF(!) I understand the workings of the various woofer filters used in Klipsch crossovers, the second order 4mH/140uF combination used in the AL-3 results in a 212Hz cross and the 4mH/100uF combination used in the AK-3 Klipschorn results in a 251Hz cross. But, the Klipschorn bass bin dies out sooner than a La Scala so the vocals go with it, in effect a much steeper slope. I’ve been playing with different crossover designs on my La Scalas and have found the AK-3 woofer filter to be the limit before vocals get muddy, it also seems to really help crossing the squawker as low as possible. But the conundrum here, is I’ve heard Belles (with a bass bin that extends to 500Hz) and did not find them muddy in the least. I also own and enjoy Peavey FH-1 bins that go solidly up to 500hz, and sound great, albeit with crossovers designed for the La Scala and Khorn - so, still crossing much lower than the limit. Most recently I built an ALK CSW clone with the standard values (3mH/80uF - 325Hz and 33uF - 600Hz) to try on my La Scalas and it left me flat. Not at all worth it. After I jumpered another 20uF on the woofer for 290Hz and 13uF on the 33uF for a 430-ish Hz cross it sounds WAY better, to me. Almost as nice as the ALK design for the Khorn - it uses a 54uF cap to cross from the squawker around 370 Hz and the AK-3 woofer filter. Once again, all thoughts are welcome here. Although your resonance frequencies are correct, there is one other important variable...the load itself. Let's use the AK-3 filter. At the resonance frequency of 251hz, the impedance of both the inductor and capacitor is 6.34 ohms. In order for the voltage across the load to be 3db down at 251hz, the load itself must be 6.34 * .708, or 4.5 ohms. If the load is less than that, the voltage will drop faster as the filter is over damped. If the load is greater than that, the voltage will extend further as the circuit is under damped. When all is said and done the -3db point (voltage) on the AK-3 is closer to 330hz(?). Ya...this gives me a headache too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 Mike, thank you for your detailed reply, as always ! No headaches, just more pieces of the puzzle. I wondered recently why Klipsch would use a 4mH coil and 100uF to produce the woofer filter when a cheaper 2.5mH and 150uF-ish combination would produce a similar value. This new light you shed may be the reason, or part of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 8 hours ago, mboxler said: Ya...this gives me a headache too. Where's AI when really needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mboxler Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 12 hours ago, geoff. said: Mike, thank you for your detailed reply, as always ! No headaches, just more pieces of the puzzle. I wondered recently why Klipsch would use a 4mH coil and 100uF to produce the woofer filter when a cheaper 2.5mH and 150uF-ish combination would produce a similar value. This new light you shed may be the reason, or part of it? I, too, wondered about this, until I simulated the impedance differences. Green is the 4mH coil and 100uF capacitor. White is the 2.5mH coil and 150uF capacitor. Notice that the green plot bottoms out around 4.6 ohms. The white plot, however, bottoms out at around 2.3 ohms. That combo draws a LOT of current, and I'm not sure many low wattage amps would be happy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdnfay1 Posted September 5 Author Share Posted September 5 My whole goal is to use a lascala bass bin and a 500hz 2 inch mid and up driver. something similar to what was done with the Jubilee. I know ,I know, i know not even close. Just trying to follow the primus of turning a 3-way to a 2-way like Klipsch had always intended for the k-horn. Am I trying to over simplify it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanksjim1 Posted September 5 Share Posted September 5 41 minutes ago, Bigdnfay1 said: My whole goal is to use a lascala bass bin and a 500hz 2 inch mid and up driver. Suggest you check out what has been discussed at length (I am also interested in the concept); JubeScala: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/search/&q=JubeScala&quick=1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 I think the 500 Hz point is for the Belles, (K-501 horn) and the 400 is for LaScala (K-401 horn), I'd use an active crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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