Knuck Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 Hello, I am new to the forum and looked out for a place to introduce myself but it's quite possible I missed it. I enjoyed my RB-81 mkII back when I started hifi with an Pioneer 9010 cheapo amp. Now I own quite a few more things like a First Watt M2 with a PST-1000 preamp from 1965 and after quite a lot of wandering in speaker lands, there are two speakers brands I want to go back to unless I go fully DIY. It's Klipsch and another speaker brand that is now long dead with no chances of ever maintain the speakers if anything should happen. Beside, me and my gf love Klipsch history, though, currently, we don't have the footprint for anything else than Heresy as we want to go in the Heritage line. I still regret not getting the deals on RF-7MKII and Heresy III at the end of the line but that was years ago. So, we fell in love with Heresy I, don't ask us why and would like to restore a pair. We saw one pair (as they're rares in our country) but I am not sure about its state as I saw more the pictures. We plan to reoil the case entirely, add sheep whool against the internal case, and some rolls of it in the angles as well. They are from 1978 but still with alnico square woofers so early models as the woofer is K-22-E. Again, I wish I am in the good posting section. The front part despite a dirty looks better however. Here are some pictures : 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcn3 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 18 hours ago, Knuck said: Hello, I am new to the forum and looked out for a place to introduce myself but it's quite possible I missed it. I enjoyed my RB-81 mkII back when I started hifi with an Pioneer 9010 cheapo amp. Now I own quite a few more things like a First Watt M2 with a PST-1000 preamp from 1965 and after quite a lot of wandering in speaker lands, there are two speakers brands I want to go back to unless I go fully DIY. It's Klipsch and another speaker brand that is now long dead with no chances of ever maintain the speakers if anything should happen. Beside, me and my gf love Klipsch history, though, currently, we don't have the footprint for anything else than Heresy as we want to go in the Heritage line. I still regret not getting the deals on RF-7MKII and Heresy III at the end of the line but that was years ago. So, we fell in love with Heresy I, don't ask us why and would like to restore a pair. We saw one pair (as they're rares in our country) but I am not sure about its state as I saw more the pictures. We plan to reoil the case entirely, add sheep whool against the internal case, and some rolls of it in the angles as well. They are from 1978 but still with alnico square woofers so early models as the woofer is K-22-E. Again, I wish I am in the good posting section. The front part despite a dirty looks better however. Here are some pictures : outside of cleaning up the outside as you mentioned, the only thing to consider updating are the oil can caps with some new factory caps from jem performance audio. otherwise, sit back and enjoy. i'm a huge fan of the alnico k-77 tweeters you have. technically, not the best, but they sure sound good! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 Congratulations on your purchase @Knuck. As jcn3 says, I would replace the caps with JEM ones. I did the same with my Klipschorn from 1973. Even if the original caps are still dry, they don't sound the way they used to. For me, the sound had become cloudy and much quieter. I also have the Alnico K77 tweeter, which has a wonderful sound. I believe that the Heresy 1 is a great speaker, with the same drivers K55V and K77 as the LaScala and Klipschorn back then, only the squawker horn is shorter. Great sound. I'm not sure if I would change anything about the enclosure volume by using wool etc. The Heresy 1s don't have any original damping materials and sound great. Sometimes you mean well but you make the sound more boring by such measures as damping material. I would rate the H1 higher soundwise than the H3 regarding its drivers. In which country do you live? If the shipping costs, customs and import VAT for JEM caps is too expensive, you can also use other high-quality but! polyester caps. 2x1 uF in parallel because 2uF is mostly not available on the open market. I used them for my LaScala, but the JEM caps in the Klipschorn sound even smoother and better (I compared the xovers using the same speaker). Don't use polypropylene caps, as these make the sound sharp and unpleasant at least to my ears. All the other components of your xover are worth their weight in gold and will never go bad, especially the original autoformer is the very best, but the other original coils too. Also leave the original wiring. What made a very significant difference for me was that I renewed all the soldering points, sucked off the old solder and soldered again, including the cable spades from the drivers at the output of the xover and clean up the connection points, screws etc at the cover. https://jemperformanceaudio.com/capacitor-kits BTW you have a nice original woofer but this square magnet is ferrite whichk is ok for the bass. Klipsch only used alnico woofers back in the 1950s and may be 60s. Can you post a photo of your xover also? Then we see if all is original. Because the wire of your tweeter is original but the wire of the woofer could be another cable than original as far as I can see it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcn3 Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 @KT88 -- they actually used alnico K-22 woofers as late as the mid-70s. I had some on my '75 Heresys -- thought they sounded great. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuck Posted October 12 Author Share Posted October 12 (edited) We go to check them/pick them sunday actually. Thank you for the help and yes, I have just readed some threads explaining why the Heresy I shouldn't be dampened. That'll save some sheep wool to put into the jem performance audio. Well the combo K-77/K-55-V/K-22 or E are why we do want some Heresy I actually. The current owner said the speakers were with crossover in good shape as they made some kind of tweak actually that was supposed to be working on the 1983 Heresy (with different speakers) so we think to delete and put back the crossover into its original state and check on the caps before to make any mod. We do live in France currently but intend probably later to join the North America! I'll check for the JEM shipping and paiement to see what to do but yes, to ship to France is quite expensive currently. We didn't intend to change the others parts (maybe but that's my OCD talking to shield the autoformer but to what improvement?). Okay, I'll do that or rather ask a person I know to do it as there's no solder iron at home yet. We thought the K-22-E that the owner told us is in is still in alnico according to the post about Klipsch Heresy history. We hope there's also the K-55-V present too. There's that big difference between K-22 and K-22-E? Yes, it seems some wires aren't original from the pictures given to us. It's an early 1978 from that I gather since it have the K-22-E and not the K-22-EF. Regarding the mod inside the speaker currently, it is this one : However, we are definitely gonna reoil the outside and inside of the speaker cabinet. I always found the speaker liked better when internal part of the cab was oiled too but that could be my foolishness talking as well. Edited October 12 by Knuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuck Posted October 13 Author Share Posted October 13 So, the Heresy are home but didn't try them yet as I first did first care for the boxes. I tried them at the former owner house and sounded beautiful despite maybe due to positionning or to the crossover modifications that doesn't suit this model, too much bass actually (maybe the loudness was on too). When I opened them, to see the quality and size of the horns and speakers ! I thought I saw a lot of audiophiles speakers but only onto another speaker from the 60s have I found such build quality for the speakers. The speakers inside are K-77, K-55-V, and K-22-EF (I just saw now, I thought it was K-22-E as advised by seller and now I just saw while looking at pictures the little EF, that's this less to ship to Germany for remagnetizing at least). I'll post more pictures along. We do notice the edges of the K-55-V cup have some tiny rust starting as they were near the sea for a long time and probably slept in caves much more than people will admit. The papers showing the serial number in the back are toasted and all ink have been washed out, except for an inspection signature maybe. Probably after somebody placed some alcohol or product on the speaker as they had some kind of cheap box protection over them. However, thanks to build quality, it's probably possible to save the boxes with elbow grease and time. There was some others 1973 Heresy for sale in another part of France but box is not original (trying to be an original) and even more damaged than mine so I was way too scared about the internal state of the speakers... The crossover have some mundort parts into it, I'll post more pictures along the way. We couldn't resist to buy them when we heard them anyway and the beefy drivers are impressive. I have also all original parts of the crossover with their values written with a pen over them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuck Posted October 13 Author Share Posted October 13 The back panel also have a small tiny kind of whool to absorb vibrations but its placement is preventing the propper sealing ot the back panel so I removed it almost onto one of them, and will do the next one tomorrow. Here is some parts of the crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuck Posted October 13 Author Share Posted October 13 And some more parts of the crossover. However, due to how scarce is the inside of the speaker space, it's gonna be tougher than planned to oil the inside of the case. Screws terminal were also changed to banana and bigger diameter as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcn3 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 20 minutes ago, Knuck said: And some more parts of the crossover. However, due to how scarce is the inside of the speaker space, it's gonna be tougher than planned to oil the inside of the case. Screws terminal were also changed to banana and bigger diameter as well. congrats on the heresys -- i'm sure you'll enjoy them. the white capacitors in your crossovers are not original -- someone has changed them at some point. on the side of the crossover board, does the crossover say "e" or "e-2"? i doubt the green capacitors are original, but a capacitor in that location is appropriate for an "e-2" crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuck Posted October 13 Author Share Posted October 13 Thank you ! They are not originals, I do have the originals one in a bag, those must be mundorf. It says Type E on the crossover but the modification is actually a modification of the Type E2 because a french modder found th K-53 and the woofer of the 83s Heresy didn't interact as he liked and posted it online with everybody following the trend without thinking the Heresy 83s are different from the others Heresy I. Oh yeah, we plan on enjoying them! Still can't believe personnaly the tight space and how the speakers are cramped with the driver barely making it to the back pannel! We'll also have to seal the back panel properly as well. Here is one of them showing some kind of mushrooms to clean carefully as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Congratulations on your purchase of Heresy 1. What I'm going to say now is really just how I would do it, there's no need to do it this way. First of all, I would rebuild the crossover to its original state. I would also check whether your crossover really fits the Heresy 1. To be honest, I didn't really understand from your text whether it was perhaps a later, different version of the crossover. You know better than me. You also wanted to oil the inside of the cabinet. I would do that too. To do that, I would remove all the drivers and the crossover. It's a quick job. I would also wait three days and let the open cabinet dry before I put the drivers back in. So far so good. About your bass woofer. Do you know if it's original or was it replaced later? Anyway, as far as I can tell, it's definitely not an Alnico. A flat square magnet is always a ferrite. Even a round flat magnet is a ferrite. An Alnico is always a long pot, some of these Alnicos have some kind of metal frame that goes around two sides of the long pot magnet. I think you know what I mean. I'll give you a very brief report on the restoration of my 1973 Klipschorn. I shared the link to it in my first post. Since one of the woofers was broken, I borrowed K33E from my 1977 LaScala. The LaScala and Klipschorn always had the same woofers at all times. Of course, the LaScala should get “its” woofers back. The question was what to buy for the Klipschorn. Because the original woofers were extremely rare K55V. I can't get them anymore and I don't want to. The standard woofer is actually K33E. They are ferrite like yours. They also used to have a square magnet. You can see it in my link above. The joke is that Klipsch uses exactly! these K33E to this day. So first I looked to see what was similar and cheaper to buy than importing new K33E from the USA. But then I thought, I don't want anything “similar”, I want original K33E with the exact parameters for resonance frequency and all that. Without much hope, I asked the spare parts company that works exclusively for the German Klipsch importer. I thought they would be very, very expensive. But to my surprise, they were very fair in price. Instead of buying the original Eminence K33E in the US, which would have cost around €400 per unit including shipping and customs, import VAT, the same woofer from the German importer cost €180 per unit plus a little national shipping. I guess that a K22 is even cheaper, not much shipping from Germany and no customs. Or you find the French import company. Actually, I was just thinking about replacements because I needed them anyway. When the new K33E were installed, I was absolutely shocked. I heard a whole octave lower, a wonderfully colorful, dry and deep, fully contoured bass from the new woofers. Such a stark difference that I will actually upgrade my old LaScala with these new original Klipsch/Eminence woofers. No comparison to 40 or 50 year old woofers. I read that you want to have the woofers remagnetized in Germany. You probably still think you have Alnico woofers? Because then it really makes sense. But you have ferrite woofers. And then it doesn't make sense because ferrite always remains the same strength. The difference, I didn't want to believe it! is because everything has gone limp. The new one is very firm. Of course you can have your original K22E reworked, but a) you don't know how well the company works and what materials they use and b) the price for the new K22E is extremely attractive and you know what you have. As for the K33E, I am absolutely certain that they are still the same today. The sheet metal basket is the same as it was 47 years ago. Other people here may know better, but I am very sure that the K22 has always been the same to this day. I can give you the link to the German spare parts company below. Or you can do the swap when you live in the US again. Believe me, there is a significant difference, unless your K22s were redone at a much later date. https://www.sisc.de/en/klipsch This is the typical look of Alnico magnets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 The woofer is clearly stamped “K-22”. The midrange is the Atlas K-55-V with original K-77 tweeters. The correct network for these parts is the Type E. The Type E2 was for the K-24, 4 ohm woofer. The Type E2 used a 4mH low pass coil with a 33uF shunt cap. Polarity for the midrange and tweeter was reversed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 So which woofer is time correct for the H1 together with K55V and K77 alnico? @Deang ? K22? is it also a 4 ohms woofer. Is this one new available or can you use a new woofer from the Heresy 4 as well in case older iterations are not any longer spare parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 21 hours ago, Knuck said: The papers showing the serial number in the back are toasted and all ink have been washed out, except for an inspection signature maybe. For the original Heresy, the serial number was also on the edge of the top of the cabinets on the back edge. Depending on the amount of sanding and finish applied, it might be a little hard to read but still visible. There will be a letter in the SN to indicate the year. And just as a side note, my HIIs have at least the front and back panels made from plywood. There were sometimes oddities when transitioning between one model version and the next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWOReilly Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 1 hour ago, Deang said: The woofer is clearly stamped “K-22”. The midrange is the Atlas K-55-V with original K-77 tweeters. The correct network for these parts is the Type E. The Type E2 was for the K-24, 4 ohm woofer. The Type E2 used a 4mH low pass coil with a 33uF shunt cap. Polarity for the midrange and tweeter was reversed. So if I rebuild my E2 connect mid and tweet backwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Should already be reversed on the network side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 3 hours ago, KT88 said: So which woofer is time correct for the H1 together with K55V and K77 alnico? @Deang ? K22? is it also a 4 ohms woofer. Is this one new available or can you use a new woofer from the Heresy 4 as well in case older iterations are not any longer spare parts? K-22 would be right for 78’s. BTW, they have a ceramic magnet, not AlNiCo. I have no idea what the DCR is. 11 ohms comes to mind. I have seen @Trey Cannon recommend the K-28 as a replacement for both the K-24 and K-22. This would boost the LF some, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing for the Heresy. At any rate, OP has original Heresys with original drivers. It’s up to him whether he fixes the network or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuck Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 (edited) Yes, the crossover definitely needs to go back to its original state while waiting for some JEM parts. I'll see to order a multimeter and ESR tester to test the original capacitors as they came with them in a separate bags. All capacitors have marker writing indicating their tested values way back when probably. Sorry, my crossover is a Type E, but somebody modified it with a french mod designed for Type E2, in order to get more bass from the speaker. The sound is overly soft and tamed actually, it's pretty and beautiful but you can feel the sound is off when I have to use my SEA (JVC kind of equalizer) to boost mids and high to get the Heresy to sound as the record should be sounding in this area. Thank you for the drying advice, I use turpentine gasoline mixed with the oil to speed up the drying process and we'll be patient with the inside cleaning to have the time and space to make a good job. As the cases serial number indicates, it's from 1978 so I thought it was an early 1978 that came with K-22-E as Klipsh Heresy history post indicate but I was wrong. The K-22-EF is standard and original on this model. Thank you for the explanation regarding Alnico. Thank you for the story of the Klipschorn as well, I am glad you enjoy the last version of the K-33-E!! Those Klipschorn must rock! Regarding Alnico magnets, my drivers for treble and medium still are Alnico so the K-77 and K-55-V will defintely go to Germany for the remagnezation. There have been reports of a company making them and good feedback on this forum. It was indicated that it was 60 euros to remagnetize there the pair of tweeters, in 2021. @Marvel The cases still shows the serial number which are near each others and in the database of serial number, it would have been made in 1978 but I have to check as it's late in the night and the number is 77 on the case. Ah, thank you for the tip on the Heresy II, it must be the magic of the factory regarding how to use the supplies. Regarding @CWOReilly question, the transition from Type D to Type E was the reversing of the polarity back from when I used to have more Dope from Hope files and were reading them eagerly (didn't save them and lost them in a reinstall), along some contest to replace the Heresy name. I am still wanting to find back those files are the ones available aren't very complete and we missed the book kickstarter window (also the shipping fees to Europe were incredible, especially considering it was made in Belgium!). So JEM parts, back sealing and let them rock? No need for internal cable change or anything? I'll see to it that they are back to life properly! Edited October 14 by Knuck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT88 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 Was is this thread, @Knuck ?. That was me, and this shop in Mannheim is very good. I also have K77 alnico in my 1977 LaScala and in my 1973 Khorn. I had send the K77 to them also with new diaphragms to let them place in. But they explained that my original diaphragms were still very good and much better than this new ones which were no original parts. Currently there is no source for new K77 diaphragms as far I know (or T35 as the original EV name is). The recharge of the K77 Alnico magnets brought 1.5 dB and a frequency extension from ca. 13000 Hz to 16000 Hz. I personally must say that I like this Alnico sound very much. I have K77M spare and tested them once. They sound sharper to me. When a violin starts to sound or decays the Alnicos are a kind of magic to my ears. The K55V is another case. I did not let recharge them, may be sometime in the future. I think they have still good energy. But there I bought new diaphragms, original ones which are made today somewhere in Asia, not China, original for the Atlas Sound company, may be it was Malaysia if I remember it right. The old diaphragms did work ok but I think the new ones make a little bit more low frequency SPL. I bought my new ones from Crites but may be that nowadays you could find them from a European source an save all this shipping and tax money? To be perfectly honest, I don't know what an ESR tester costs, but I've now had the disappointing experience twice that the old Aerovox or even older Klipsch caps were just tired and limp, even if they looked fantastic and dry on the outside. Both my 1973 caps and my 1977 caps had passed away. And there are examples here in the forum where other people tell exactly the same story. But try it if you like, maybe you'll get lucky. I wish a good proceed for your fantastic project. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 2 hours ago, Knuck said: The cases still shows the serial number which are near each others and in the database of serial number, it would have been made in 1978 but I have to check as it's late in the night and the number is 77 on the case. A If there is the letter S in the sn, they were made in '78. An R would indicate '77. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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