whell Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 You guys are all wet on this one: bi wiring works if you do it right. It does take some time, but I've trained the "high" electrons to travel the correct bi-wiring path to get to the high cable connections on my RF-7's. I've also trained the "low" electrons to do the same. The hardest part of this whole arrangement is to KEEP the high electrons high and the low electrons low. I go through enough blow on a weekly basis to satisfy the Rolling Stones in their prime, but it keeps my highs clear as a bell. The lows are satisfied with little doggie downers. I've not found a good solutions for the mids, however. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Speaker Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Heres a question: If the RX-V1400 has 7 amps, could I bi-amp my RF-7s by connecting the high range to the Front left & right on speaker output A and connect the low range to the Surround left & right. If I set the unit to 7 channel it will be outputting to only the 2 speakers that are connected but it will be using 2 different amps. Will I get 2 channel bi-amped speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 must...find...rip...cord avman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 ---------------- On 4/29/2004 1:36:09 PM whell wrote: You guys are all wet on this one: bi wiring works if you do it right. It does take some time, but I've trained the "high" electrons to travel the correct bi-wiring path to get to the high cable connections on my RF-7's. I've also trained the "low" electrons to do the same. The hardest part of this whole arrangement is to KEEP the high electrons high and the low electrons low. I go through enough blow on a weekly basis to satisfy the Rolling Stones in their prime, but it keeps my highs clear as a bell. The lows are satisfied with little doggie downers. I've not found a good solutions for the mids, however. Any suggestions? ---------------- whell- LMAO!! right when i'm going to 'bail' from this topic you come up w/that.. as far as the 'mids' ?...have you tried 'weed'? j/k avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampcat Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 my speakers are bi wired with an adcom555ll amp. tried both ways. sounds same too me! had extra pair of monster cables so just left it that way. I have another adcom amp, I use for another set of speakers. I tried bi amping this sounded better!!! but need that extra amp for my other speaker system. Biwire seems like hype to me!!! Klipsch was very helpful with info at their contact by email, though. Not worth the money for another set of cables. Use one good set of heavy guage high copper content cables , the rest is all hype! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 ---------------- On 4/29/2004 1:36:09 PM whell wrote: You guys are all wet on this one: bi wiring works if you do it right. It does take some time, but I've trained the "high" electrons to travel the correct bi-wiring path to get to the high cable connections on my RF-7's. I've also trained the "low" electrons to do the same. The hardest part of this whole arrangement is to KEEP the high electrons high and the low electrons low. I go through enough blow on a weekly basis to satisfy the Rolling Stones in their prime, but it keeps my highs clear as a bell. The lows are satisfied with little doggie downers. I've not found a good solutions for the mids, however. Any suggestions?---------------- Too much fun to pass up. If you are using an active crossover, while high, you will have to place three quarters on the right front corner of the unit to negate the tendency for the electrons to get lazy and forgetful. This gentle slope keeps them from falling out of the unit on the right side (very high electrons tend to list to the right). Doggie downed lows is an excellent solution, only here you need to use a 'bybee' filter to be sure that the electrons don't get so low and slow as to actually cause the low frequencies to 'stall' (more like a traffic jam, but I won't bore you with technical details). The bybee will gently massage the electrons to just the right state for leaping into their own special wire. The mids exist on each wire and here at the 'Watkins Five Leaf Research' facility we pass the mids through a nicotine coating device (we call ours the Winston Filter). It is well documented that nicotine can relax as well as stimulate - just what is needed with the mids. I too have been amazed by all the bad information out here on this subject and I am glad to have finally found another voice of reason (those who know me already know that I have 6 separate voices internally generated). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Speaker Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Hwatkins, Im excited about trying this. Where do you get your electrons? I called Best Buy and Good Guys trying to find the right ones and told them about what you said and they acted like Im crazy! P.S. The guy at Radio Shack is going to call me back after he checks with his boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 ---------------- On 4/30/2004 12:38:32 AM avman wrote: whell- LMAO!! right when i'm going to 'bail' from this topic you come up w/that.. as far as the 'mids' ?...have you tried 'weed'? j/k avman. ---------------- I've not tried weed. I'd be a bit concerned about that. The mids tend to be just that: middle of the road, moderate, temperate. I'd be concerned that I might offend some of them with the weed suggestion. It does give me another thought, however. Mids also tend to be easliy influenced, as in, bending with the breeze. If I can ventilate my speaker cables somehow, and do it correctly, it might do the trick. I would have to get them up off the floor to vent them correctly, and we all know the benefits of doing that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibby214 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Frank S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibby214 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Oops, Frank Speaker, Did you contact Yahama about using 4 of you 7 amps on your two mains. I have the RXV 1400 and would try it but I don't know what the room optimizer mic, (YPAO) would think of it.??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Speaker Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 gibby214: You know, I never did contact Yamaha. I pretty well figured out that the RX-V1400 has multiple amps but without an active crossover true bi-amping isnt achieved. Go back in this thread to what yromj has to say and click on the link he provided at A great thread about the different kinds of bi-amping is located here. That link shows what they call passive bi-amp and farther down, the text describes the effect. Using the different amps in the RX-V1400 would be like the described passive bi-amp with questionable improvement. TBrennan is the man, on this subject. Below is the diagram courtesy of TBrennan from the post: 2-Channel Audio » How much would biamping change soun on a Klipsch? By rkwu That post is well worth reading. As you can see in the diagram you need the active x-over for true bi-amping. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewishAMerPrince Posted June 10, 2004 Share Posted June 10, 2004 Do you happen to know where one can get a decent affordable 2 way active crossover? Jerry R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 11, 2004 Author Share Posted June 11, 2004 Hi gang, it's been a while. I've just gotten the new DSL working at the new home. Got to get all 11 pairs of speakers (mostly Klipsch! wooohooo) wired up as well. Our friend Pathos has got the question right... "If you connect two sets of speaker wire to the same output of your amp how are you going to seperate the high and low freqs? Do you need to connect to a crossover first? The whole advantage of bi-wiring is to have the signals carried over different wires to avoid the congestion on one set. The LFE signals are supposed to be cleaner and the Higher freqs are supposed to be more pronounced.(Or maybe the other way around) How can this work if you use the same outputs? Wouldn't the same signal be sent down both sets of wires to the speakers? This is all taking in account that I would be using the same speaker wire for the runs. Is this why they would say to get wire suited to the signal? " You have to run two separate types of wiring to take advantage of Bi-wiring. The theory is something like, the high frequencies get confused with so many turns in the wire, or the number of strands vs the wire gauge. Bass frequencies travel through the wire in a different manner and require a larger gauge. So there is THEORETICALLY an increase in 'definition' when bi-wiring. I've not tried it yet, but I'd be interested in a technical report or listener review on an A-B comparison. On an editorial note, I also do not believe in Monster cable, oxygen free wire, etc. Just use BIG gauge wire, solder the ends or use banana plugs to reduce corrosion, listen and ENJOY! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Nasty Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 But I did not see any biwiring with bose when will they decide to biwire their acoustimas or lifestyle ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiob Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Lower sensitivity speakers with ribbons and cones respond very well to bi-wireing. Klipsch speakers are very effeciant and do not load the amplifier like other speakers do. The person who say you cant tell a difference, is a person who has never done an a-b comparison on low sensitivity bi wire capable,large power amp system. Klipsch likes small wire. Try switching between silver 15 ga and copper 15ga if you would like to here a cable difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lankhoss Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Hey guys, just want to throw my 2 cents in here. I actually had this same problem when I got my KLF-20's. I didn't understand bi-wiring, and posted a few threads about it......and never really got any good answers. So I did a little experimenting. First off, I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-43TX receiver. I have the A output, and B output. B can be set to Surround Back (for 7.1), 2nd Zone, or Front Bi-Amp. In my manual, it does not give any definition as to what the receiver is doing when it is set to Bi-Amp, it only shows how to hook it up (and doesn't specify which set needs to go to which output). However, it does state that using this configuration will feed more power to the front speakers. I tried setting it up with two separate sets of wires, and didn't really notice much of a difference. I suppose that would be considered bi-amping Then I bought a set of Monster Bi-Wire cables. Again, I have never gotten a direct answer, but I understand the bi-wire cables to be something like this. When the wires are split, there is a thicker solid core set for the "low" and a thinner more tightly wound set for the "high." So the windings are different inside the bi-wire cable. Like you guys, I never could figure out the advantage in theory. I decided to try it anyway, and.....WOW. The difference in sound was amazing. The thing is, I can't tell you why. Maybe if someone knows more about how a "bi-wire" works, that could provide some insight for us. I was confused about impedance for each set of wires. Since you are separating the terminals, it seemed to me you'd now have two different circuits in the speaker.....which I would have thought changed the impedance. A rep at Hi-Fi Buys tried to give me an explanation that didn't quite make sense to me, but I think this is how it works. When you separate the terminals....and then plug in the "low" set of wires....that set of wires now sees an infinte amount of resistance above the crossover frequency at the woofer terminals(in my case, 700Hz). Then the "high" set sees an infinite amount of resistance at 700Hz and below along the mid/tweeter terminals. Electronically, anytime a certain signal sees an infinite amount of resistance....it does not travel along that path. So, in theory, wouldn't this mean that the high frequencies literally would not travel along the "low" set, and the low frequencies would not travel along the "high" set? I think it is how the wires "see" what is on the other end that split up the frequencies on the two sets of wires, even though they are coming out of the same amp. P.S. After getting excited about this and talking to the guys I work with about it, my supervisor went home and noticed his RC-7 (is that the right model?) center channel had bi-wiring terminals. So after hearing my testimony, he went and bought the same set of bi-wire cables I did and said he noticed an incredible difference in sound, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Biwire goes both ways. i.e., No silly directional arrows. What were YOU thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lankhoss Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Klipschfoot, Are you talking to me? Bi-wires don't have directional arrows, but you can ONLY hook them up one way. They have one set of + and - terminals at the amplifier end, and two sets at the speaker end. So it's + and - at amp end, then high +/high -; plus low +/low - at the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Biwire goes both ways. Can they get married in Mass.. and still have another one on the side too? What political/ religious senario will this prove to be long term too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lankhoss Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Ha ha, now I get it. D'oh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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