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colterphoto1

explain Bi-wire??

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I'm an ex sound-engineer, so I understand all the technical stuff about bi- and tri-amping speakers systems for concert sound for better efficiency, driver protection, less distortion.

I cannot understant Klipsch's concept of 'bi-wiring'! Two sets of leads coming from the same amplifier posts to speaker posts wired in parallel should have no effect but to double the amount of copper used to pass the signal. I have not found an answer in product literature of this site.

Can someone explain how this works to me?

BTW, the RC7 'tapered array' is one of the best ideas I have heard in years. It avoids the timing difference between two similar drivers in the critical vocal range if the listener is off-axis of the speaker. (common in home theatre installations- there is commonly only one 'sweet spot')

Michael

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Thanks Russ,

This article would lead one to believe that the benefits of bi-wiring are negligible, as I suspected. Apparently, you must use different wire types, each optimized for a particular driver within the cabinet. The article points out that this configuration can cause problems as well.

Think I'll just stick to normal wiring.

Michael

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As I suspected, the limited amount of research you put into understanding this concept has reinforced your already biased opinion.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

It's hard to teach an old dog, new tricks.

I recommend a deep web search on this subject.

There must be many sources from which you can obtain credible information.

Have you e-mailed Klipsch Tech support to ask their reasoning behind this very expensive addition to their core products?

If they are reluctant to reply, you could ask techs at B&W or Paradigm.

They both assumed the related production costs and implemented this modification.

But hey, There always is the possiblity that these manufactures are trying to bolster the sales of secondary amplifiers to enable bi-amping.

Of course, none of the afore mentioned manufactures have anything to gain from increased amplifier sales.

Could be an underlying motive there that is spurred by pro bi-amping lobbyists.

One just never knows the real truth about these things.

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Do I sense a sarcastic tone in the air around here? Nah . It must be my bipolar wiring disorder popping up again. He he he he he. 2.gif

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Is that your bipolar wiring disorder popping up again, or are you just happy to see me?

Sorry, I'm a little tired, and will need a long synapse today.

fini

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I must apologize.

You see, I have recently enabled my neuroreceptors to accept multi-path bi-wiring.

I'm still have issues stemming from crosstalk and incompatible phase relationships.

Go figure.1.gif

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Since both sets of wires will be carrying the same signal, and both hit the same crossover before they hit each respective driver, logic will dictate that there are no advantages to bi-wiring. I'm open to an explanation to prove otherwise, but I cannot reach a conclusion to support the practice at this time.

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Back when I was doing stereo installs, Bi & tri-wiring was used with multiple amps to the drivers, but the crossover was removed from the speaker & an electronic crossover was put in before the amps. This allowed the use of an powerful amp for the lower notes, while using a clean, low power amp for the mids & highs. It was said that the mid/highs could travel easily over a clean circuit without interference from the bass overloading the wires etc.

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I understand bi-amping. This makes sense. But bi-wiring is the practice of running two sets of wires from the same amp, both carrying full range signals to the crossover in the speaker.

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I have been researching this too... While I am no expert I have come up with my own two cents.

If you connect two sets of speaker wire to the same output of your amp how are you going to seperate the high and low freqs? Do you need to connect to a crossover first?

The whole advantage of bi-wiring is to have the signals carried over different wires to avoid the congestion on one set. The LFE signals are supposed to be cleaner and the Higher freqs are supposed to be more pronounced.(Or maybe the other way around) How can this work if you use the same outputs? Wouldn't the same signal be sent down both sets of wires to the speakers?

This is all taking in account that I would be using the same speaker wire for the runs. Is this why they would say to get wire suited to the signal?

I currently have my RF-3IIs and RC-3 single wired and I couldn't be more happy...but if someone can convince me that bi-wiring will make a difference, I am all for it. I can't imagine these speakers to sound any better.4.gif

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Did you ever notice that trying to have an intelligent discussion about the advantages or non advantages of bi-wiring seems to fall in the same category as arguing with people about why making a double batch of cookies never comes out the same as making a single batch of cookies?

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I'm just trying to see if I'm missing something in my thought process. ;)

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Pathos:

Using your reasearch, would it make sense to just move the crossover close to the amp, using a very short cable, then seperate wires to each driver? This would make sense if long cable runs are needed.

Also, the only time I ever had to do this was for power hungry speakers. Us Klipsch users don't need to think like that.

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The crossovers are separated in the speaker when it is equipped for bi-wiring. That's why you need to have straps between the high and low binding posts if you aren't bi-wiring or you won't get the full signal out of the speaker.

There is a theory that fat, single wire cable is best for lows and thin, megastrand cable is best for highs. I suppose, then, that running those two types of cable to each speaker would optimize the transfer of the highs and lows.

DD

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Funny: It does not describe any results or advantages to bi-wiring, however, if you go to the link on bi-amping, it describes a "blur" between terms, and then shows the method I used to use.

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Hey guys,

I am just about out the door to go pick up some RCR-3s for my rears from Dyer Electronics in Austin. While I am there I will start a discussion with them on the Bi-wire issue. I did talk to them very briefly about it in the past, but now I am a little better armed with information. (www.dyerelectronics.com is there website, not much info but cool to look throuhg)

I do know that they are big fans of bi-wiring and bi-amping, but when you have an endless supply of money and equipment who wouldn't be. Hopefully I can get them to explain why a set of RF-3II's would need to be bi-wired...(or any other speaker)

I will put up the results later tonight for those who are interested.

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DBflash,

excellent link. This is the first piece of information that has presented a significant advantage to bi-wiring. Here's the piece of information I found interesting:

'Biwiring works by reducing of the tendency for strong bass signals to overwhelm the rest of the audio signal. The larger, more powerful bass signal can greatly affect the integrity of the much lower-energy components of both the midrange and fragile treble information. Running separate wires from the amplifier can have a profound impact on relieving the tweeter circuit from the back flush of EMF (elector-motive force) generated by the woofer. When the audio signal to the woofer ceases, such as when a loud bass note is finished, the woofer tries to stop moving. In trying to stop, it actually goes through a process of "settling" because it is too massive to just stop instantly. As it settles, it moves forward and backward repeatedly until it can completely come to rest. During this movement, as the voice coil is moving through the field of the magnet, it generates its own signal. That generated signal is sent backward up the woofer wires and into the crossover, where it corrupts the rest of the music signal.'

If this proves to be the case, it may change my mind about the validity of bi-wiring. 6.gif

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