Underground Jubilee vs Lascala AL5

[KT88]

1 hour ago, Schu said:

is an 'orchestra' or a 'band' a single source?

No stereo can reproduce the live experience of a band or an orchestra. But at least you can say that every instrument or sound generator, every piano string is a single source. At least wind instruments etc. So no comb filtering, phase shift, delay etc. 

No, an orchestra as a whole is not a single source, but a single source speaker is the best way to reproduce an orchestra or a band as it played live if recorded properly. At least it excludes additional artifacts. That's why Roy prefers the 2-way UJ at least for listening distance in a living room.

[KT88]

2 hours ago, Flevoman said:

 

By the way, the horns have been horizontal again for a few days now. I'm going to listen to them this way for a few more days 😊

I would also run DSpeaker again now to get the right balance between treble and bass..

[babadono]

Single point source?

Hence.....the MEH

 

[Schu]

On 12/6/2024 at 8:47 AM, KT88 said:

 But at least you can say that every instrument or sound generator, every piano string is a single source. At least wind instruments etc. So no comb filtering, phase shift, delay etc.

BS

[KT88]

1 hour ago, Schu said:

BS

Thank you for your eloquent reply. In the spirit of this forum, where competent contributions are highly valued.

[Tom05]

A Single Point source horn offers more  precise control of the sound waves, it ensures   correct timing  , eliminates comb filtering from the speaker source and better controls directivity , since the entire signal exits through a horn of the same exit dimension. All this adds  precision to the sound quality .

[Tom05]

Whether or not an orchestra is a point source, is not relevant , as it will be recorded in its entirety with all anomalies intact , likely recorded in stereo. The issue  in this case is the playback side of music , which  is an entirely different and unrelated issue . When playing back music on a speaker system the goal is to be as faithful as possible to the   recording ,and a point source offers technical advantages in doing this , whether the difference is  apparent in a home setting, that’s what I wonder about.

[Marvel]

If an orchestra was recorded in front, it would have plenty of phase/timing issues, but played back on a time aligned phase correct system, you would get to hear it the way the audience would hear it.

[KT88]

I sometimes wonder what point source and/or time delay really matters when I listen at home. I guess it also depends a lot on how well a speaker is designed overall. For example, my BBC LS3/6 which has two tweeters and is not time aligned give a better sense of space of the classical orchestra than the point source and time aligned old 15” Tannoys. The Tannoys, on the other hand, let you hear more information from the recording. Also the impulses and attack of the Tannoys in the mid-range, e.g. a tonewood or a vibraphone, are much more powerful and clearer. But when I listen to the LaScala, it doesn't make any compromises in this respect, even though the LaScala is the opposite of time aligned. And of course it's not a single source either. Perhaps the good impression is simply created by the fact that the LaScala plays so cleanly in the bass (and everywhere in the spectrum), even if the bass goes from somewhere else in the room than the midrange and reaches the ear later it sounds „sound“. A lot of it is simply a matter of getting used to. After three days, my ear is completely familiar with each of the different speakers.

[Schu]

I think time alignment is the most critical... because of 'Smearing' and loss/softening of transients.

trying to controlling phase is much more problematic given all the room reflections and speaker design differences.

 

[Flevoman]

How I understand things is this where Dirac is your best friend. 

A good audio friend just bought 1 for his setup and he is very pleased with it. 

 

[KT88]

Dirac can help a bit overall but it can't fix the specific characteristics of a loudspeaker and its comb filter problems and time delay. It is not a miracle machine. The better the speaker, the better the additional effect of Dirac for the room.

[Tom05]

I know the value of scale and Im sure that the Jubilee shines on the subject of scale .Schu isn’t  alone in his appreciation of this illusive quality in loudspeakers . It’s hard to find a good explanation of scale  in speakers , I have my ideas , but I do know it when I hear it , and I like it . I think it’s a quality  worth pursuing .

Edited December 16, 2024 by Tom05

[Flevoman]

On 12/15/2024 at 2:31 PM, KT88 said:

Dirac can help a bit overall but it can't fix the specific characteristics of a loudspeaker and its comb filter problems and time delay. It is not a miracle machine. The better the speaker, the better the additional effect of Dirac for the room.

 

To be completely honest, I have no idea how well Dirac works with phase. The whole topic of phase is still a new area for me also. 
I can only share what I’ve heard from a few users I know and whose knowledge and experience I trust enough to take seriously.
So far, I’ve only heard very positive feedback about Dirac and how it handles phase, among other things.
I’m definitely very curious about it and am exploring how I can best implement it in my system.

[KT88]

When? Is Dirac a Xmas present?🙂

[Flevoman]

I wish 😂.. 

I have no idea when, first I have to find out what is the best way to implant Dirac in to my system. 

For now I think it has to be done with something from Minidsp. 

[LTusler]

2 hours ago, Flevoman said:

I wish 😂.. 

I have no idea when, first I have to find out what is the best way to implant Dirac in to my system. 

For now I think it has to be done with something from Minidsp. 

It needs to go between the Camdridge and your power amps.  hopefully you have at least a 2 input and 4 output version.

[Flevoman]

The Cambridge has been replaced by a DIY streamer+DDDAC.
I would like to keep this in my system, but as a result, I am tied to a few factors that make it harder to find the right component.
It must have an analog input and a digital (preferably XLR) output.
The only option I have found so far is the Minidsp SHD.
However, I currently know too little about this device to determine whether it is indeed suitable or if there are other options.

 

 

[Marvel]

On 12/6/2024 at 11:29 PM, Schu said:

is an 'orchestra' or a 'band' a single source?

An orchestra recorded as a stereo image, a two microphone setup, to me gets you the scale of a live event. Needs to be the right venue/hall, though. Or a good surround recording but not fabricated panning placement.

[Schu]

not all recordings are equal... or executed the same.
Orchestras can be recorded zonally with > two microphones... and mixed in studio.

 

the initial point of the post is that, you are listening to source material (sheet music) being produced with a multitude of sources... they do gang up sections so they couple correctly... but there is still phase issues and timing issues... that was the point, not recording or reproduction of a live performance.