New Ownership for Onkyo, Klipsch and Integra Brands

[JohnA]

Interesting.  But I bought Heresy IVs because they sounded so much cleaner and more coherent than the Heresies I had.  Heritage has always been expensive, but the new ones, that I've heard, are worth the extra cost over the older ones. 

[mopardave]

3 hours ago, JohnA said:

Interesting.  But I bought Heresy IVs because they sounded so much cleaner and more coherent than the Heresies I had.  Heritage has always been expensive, but the new ones, that I've heard, are worth the extra cost over the older ones. 

Thats because the components and horns are better, kinda like what most of us like to do as a hobby(Klipsch hobby). Use the old design Heritage and put newer components in them and save a ton over the brand new over priced stuff they now sell.    I have not done the numbers, but in 1985 i paid $900 for a pair of Heresy's. What is the price now, maybe 3 times that.  I dont make 3 times as much as i did in 1985 and inflation is much more today than it was then.    Still think they are priced higher than they should be. Totally out of my range and im not a poor guy.      I wish them the best.

[Zen Traveler]

23 minutes ago, mopardave said:

  I have not done the numbers, but in 1985 i paid $900 for a pair of Heresy's. What is the price now, maybe 3 times that. 

Look at the brightside--TV prices are WAY down and picture quality isn't comparable to 1985...Otoh, subwoofers help keep the size of other speakers down and I'd rather have RF-7s instead of Heresies. 

{NOTE: I paid $1350 for RF-7s in 2003. I'm listening to them right now with the lower end sent to dual RSW subs. 😁}

 

 

[mopardave]

30 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Look at the brightside--TV prices are WAY down and picture quality isn't comparable to 1985...Otoh, subwoofers help keep the size of other speakers down and I'd rather have RF-7s instead of Heresies. 

{NOTE: I paid $1350 for RF-7s in 2003. I'm listening to them right now with the lower end sent to dual RSW subs. 😁}

 

 

Agree, i am currently building something similar to a Klipsch product(klf30) , I will call them KLF30 plus. They will use twin Celestion 15's with the 18x10 zxpc horns with prv2200 for mids and the mahl horns with B&C tweets.  I will have 1/3 or less expense in these if Klipsch were producing and selling them.  They would probably ask $10,000 for a pair of these and use MDF.   I am using Birch laminated 3/4 ply.  

[mikebse2a3]

1 hour ago, mopardave said:

Agree, i am currently building something similar to a Klipsch product(klf30) , I will call them KLF30 plus. They will use twin Celestion 15's with the 18x10 zxpc horns with prv2200 for mids and the mahl horns with B&C tweets.  I will have 1/3 or less expense in these if Klipsch were producing and selling them.  They would probably ask $10,000 for a pair of these and use MDF.   I am using Birch laminated 3/4 ply.  

 

I love it when people/critics who have no idea of what it cost to maintain a particular long term business, to keep the doors open, to provide jobs with benefits/insurance, to maintain engineering research and development of new products, advertising cost, support the products during and after warranty, to offer updates when possible to older models, etc….. but have never walked in the shoes of whom they would criticize and judge.

 

Are there greedy price gouging companies..? Of course and it can make us consumers very jaded and doubting but we need to be careful not to judge the needs of a company to survive without fully understanding their overhead expenses and the challenges they face as times change.

 

I speak from the perspective of having been part of a family business that survived for over 20 years in the electronics sales and service industry and as times changed and the cost of keeping the doors open while trying to pay a descent wage with very modest benefits (and don’t even think about even being able to offer anything more than the most basic insurance). Eventually it became unsustainable and believe me we sacrificed for many years but it was beyond our control due to the changes in electronics reliability, throw away mentality due to low cost manufacturing and unfair trade practices that allowed unfair foreign competition practices among many other factors and the result was to watch all the businesses like ours close and the distributors that supplied us close and the manufacturers had to merge/sale or close down.  

 

So one of the most frustrating things for me was to have people who would come to our business and buy parts from me and basically use my inventory and try to use my experience/knowledge to do their “businesses from their homes”. Then there were the self-believing experts who looked from the outside at our business and say we were ridiculously pricing our goods and services all while we were barely keeping the doors open to survive for better times that never came.

 

So @mopardave just keep looking from the outside and criticizing Klipsch “since you obviously have all the answers” and please try to remember their are real people there just trying to survive in these times for better times which I truly hope happens for them. 

 

miketn

[Peacemaker]

Following this conversation and am intrigued by the different perspectives.

[mopardave]

8 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

 

I love it when people/critics who have no idea of what it cost to maintain a particular long term business, to keep the doors open, to provide jobs with benefits/insurance, to maintain engineering research and development of new products, advertising cost, support the products during and after warranty, to offer updates when possible to older models, etc….. but have never walked in the shoes of whom they would criticize and judge.

 

Are there greedy price gouging companies..? Of course and it can make us consumers very jaded and doubting but we need to be careful not to judge the needs of a company to survive without fully understanding their overhead expenses and the challenges they face as times change.

 

I speak from the perspective of having been part of a family business that survived for over 20 years in the electronics sales and service industry and as times changed and the cost of keeping the doors open while trying to pay a descent wage with very modest benefits (and don’t even think about even being able to offer anything more than the most basic insurance). Eventually it became unsustainable and believe me we sacrificed for many years but it was beyond our control due to the changes in electronics reliability, throw away mentality due to low cost manufacturing and unfair trade practices that allowed unfair foreign competition practices among many other factors and the result was to watch all the businesses like ours close and the distributors that supplied us close and the manufacturers had to merge/sale or close down.  

 

So one of the most frustrating things for me was to have people who would come to our business and buy parts from me and basically use my inventory and try to use my experience/knowledge to do their “businesses from their homes”. Then there were the self-believing experts who looked from the outside at our business and say we were ridiculously pricing our goods and services all while we were barely keeping the doors open to survive for better times that never came.

 

So @mopardave just keep looking from the outside and criticizing Klipsch “since you obviously have all the answers” and please try to remember their are real people there just trying to survive in these times for better times which I truly hope happens for them. 

 

miketn

Your absolutely correct, i am looking in from the outside, but i have looked into opening a business and learned enough to not do it.  I found i can save the headache and live comfortable just punching a clock and going home. I have a friend that runs a business building $1800-$2500 racing carburetors. He makes enough to keep the doors open and have a little pocket money.  Not my cup of tea, so i do have an idea what running a business can involve, although never did it for good reason.   I certainly do not have Klipsch's numbers, but they made it this far with a quality product (Heritage line), that most middle class could afford.  So if there supply costs and overhead is that much now to lessen the quality and charge more pushing the product so far away from the average consumer, then maybe they should close the doors, walk away.  Its never good to die a slow death.

[Woofers and Tweeters]

15 hours ago, mopardave said:

I dont make 3 times as much as i did in 1985 and inflation is much more today than it was then.

IIRC, the minimum wage in 1985 was ~ $3 per hr. From what you have typed in this thread, I can see why you're not making 3x that wage. 

[Zen Traveler]

2 hours ago, mopardave said:

... I certainly do not have Klipsch's numbers, but they made it this far with a quality product (Heritage line), that most middle class could afford. 

Imo, you are looking at it backwards. Given the reason there is new ownership we have to look at it from their perspective...Why and who actually buys speakers for the house? With SO MUCH folks can spend their money on how much is going for an old style stereo rig? 🤔

 

You mentioned Klipsch charging $10,000 for a speaker you are designing which evidently would compete with the RF-7s which are made currently in Hope--I gather the new ones sell for less than 4k a pair, but again, who is gonna pay that price, you could buy a (couple) of decent HT packages or slim Sound bar for less. 

 

2 hours ago, mopardave said:

 

So if there supply costs and overhead is that much now to lessen the quality and charge more pushing the product so far away from the average consumer, then maybe they should close the doors, walk away.  Its never good to die a slow death.

Again, Klipsch the company will live on. The people you talk about "dying a slow death," aren't the ones who sold (or bought) the company, but the ones Trey and others are talking about.

[mikebse2a3]

2 hours ago, mopardave said:

Your absolutely correct, i am looking in from the outside, but i have looked into opening a business and learned enough to not do it.  I found i can save the headache and live comfortable just punching a clock and going home. I have a friend that runs a business building $1800-$2500 racing carburetors. He makes enough to keep the doors open and have a little pocket money.  Not my cup of tea, so i do have an idea what running a business can involve, although never did it for good reason.   I certainly do not have Klipsch's numbers, but they made it this far with a quality product (Heritage line), that most middle class could afford.  So if there supply costs and overhead is that much now to lessen the quality and charge more pushing the product so far away from the average consumer, then maybe they should close the doors, walk away.  Its never good to die a slow death.

There are the doers who chase the dream and then there are those who only want to stand on the sides criticizing and yelling doom and gloom and never actually tried for their dream.  
 

So do you tell your friend who has his own business/dream that he is a fool and should give up and that he should follow your path because you definitely seem to be full of “inexperienced” knowledge and total understanding based on never actually opening/operating a business..?

[mopardave]

13 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

IIRC, the minimum wage in 1985 was ~ $3 per hr. From what you have typed in this thread, I can see why you're not making 3x that wage. 

If you need to know, i was making $15.00/hr at General Motors and i am now making $31.00/hr driving a truck.

[Woofers and Tweeters]

On 12/25/2024 at 1:18 AM, Deang said:

No company should have to sit and watch the bullshit that was going on here, on their company sponsored board. You have no idea how close we came to losing this place.

This forum and the company thrived for more than 20 years with what you're calling bull on here. 

 

 

On 12/25/2024 at 1:18 AM, Deang said:

If you want to blame someone, blame me. I’m the one that suggested to Roy to bring the hammer down and to change the direction of the modifications section. 2 years and people are still pissing and moaning about it. Get over it. 

Evidence shows that it didn't work out as the wise thing to do.

Due to what happened, members who gave money and speakers to the museum stopped giving and left. Members who were on here spoke highly of this place and Klipsch in general and those feelings changed, and for a good reason. 

[mopardave]

8 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Imo, you are looking at it backwards. Given the reason there is new ownership we have to look at it from their perspective...Why and who actually buys speakers for the house? With SO MUCH folks can spend their money on how much is going for an old style stereo rig? 🤔

 

You mentioned Klipsch charging $10,000 for a speaker you are designing which evidently would compete with the RF-7s which are made currently in Hope--I gather the new ones sell for less than 4k a pair, but again, who is gonna pay that price, you could buy a (couple) of decent HT packages or slim Sound bar for less. 

 

Again, Klipsch the company will live on. The people you talk about "dying a slow death," aren't the ones who sold (or bought) the company, but the ones Trey and others are talking about.

What i am building will simply blow away a Cornwall, let alone an RF7.  I'm pretty sure Klipsch would price these out at close to $10,000.   

[Woofers and Tweeters]

Just now, mopardave said:

If you need to know, i was making $15.00/hr at General Motors and i am now making $31.00/hr driving a truck.

From the responses to what you've typed, you still don't know that you should step away from your keyboard? It's not what you're saying, it's where you're saying it. 

[mopardave]

3 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

This forum and the company thrived for more than 20 years with what you're calling bull on here. 

 

 

Evidence shows that it didn't work out as the wise thing to do.

Due to what happened, members who gave money and speakers to the museum stopped giving and left. Members who were on here spoke highly of this place and Klipsch in general and those feelings changed, and for a good reason. 

You are absolutely correct. The Heritage line was still within reach of most Klipsch loyalist thru those years.  Not now with Cornwalls at $6600/pr, Khorns at $26,000/pr, Jubilee at $36,000/pr.   Not gonna sell many speakers like that.

[mopardave]

15 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Imo, you are looking at it backwards. Given the reason there is new ownership we have to look at it from their perspective...Why and who actually buys speakers for the house? With SO MUCH folks can spend their money on how much is going for an old style stereo rig? 🤔

 

You mentioned Klipsch charging $10,000 for a speaker you are designing which evidently would compete with the RF-7s which are made currently in Hope--I gather the new ones sell for less than 4k a pair, but again, who is gonna pay that price, you could buy a (couple) of decent HT packages or slim Sound bar for less. 

 

Again, Klipsch the company will live on. The people you talk about "dying a slow death," aren't the ones who sold (or bought) the company, but the ones Trey and others are talking about.

Ok, so what would you say is the solution?

[billybob1]

Guess business pursuit conversations ensue yet, if interested in the health of a company or companies, as VOXX owns Klipsch as my understanding, has anyone  searched for why Gentex bought, and VOXX was acquired or sold to. Guess some stockholders know or are finding out.

[Woofers and Tweeters]

.

[mopardave]

17 minutes ago, mikebse2a3 said:

There are the doers who chase the dream and then there are those who only want to stand on the sides criticizing and yelling doom and gloom and never actually tried for their dream.  
 

So do you tell your friend who has his own business/dream that he is a fool and should give up and that he should follow your path because you definitely seem to be full of “inexperienced” knowledge and total understanding based on never actually opening/operating a business..?

I cant and wont ever tell others what they should do, but i know i will never open a business and eat ramen for the first 5yrs or so while i reinvest everything back into the business with the earnings and without a guarantee it will survive.    

[Woofers and Tweeters]

Just now, mopardave said:

cant and wont ever tell others what they should do,

Nope, not you. You'd never do that, would you? 

2 hours ago, mopardave said:

So if there supply costs and overhead is that much now to lessen the quality and charge more pushing the product so far away from the average consumer, then maybe they should close the doors, walk away.  Its never good to die a slow death.