Deang Posted December 27, 2024 Share Posted December 27, 2024 First time I’ve heard that explained in a way that I understand. Maybe someone up the chain will see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted December 27, 2024 Share Posted December 27, 2024 23 hours ago, mopardave said: How many people on here are buying $26,000-$36,000 Klipsch speakers? I will never take a loan for a pair of any speaker. Champagne taste... Beer Budget. that pretty much sum's up the Klipsch market segment. I think the Jubilee was purely a 'Passion Project'... and the market wasn't really looking for a Gigantic Imax theater 2-channel solution. The AL and AK seem to sit in a comfortable place in the market at MSRP minus 10%-20%... I feel the market appetite has really changed over the last handful of years and while people still want premium, they want it with a much smaller footprint and with more advanced technology and ease of use. manufacturers need to 'LISTEN' to what the market is telling them as opposed to trying to tell the market what it should want. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted December 27, 2024 Share Posted December 27, 2024 Okay... I'm done 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 27, 2024 Share Posted December 27, 2024 AK-6 is on Crutchfield for just over $16K. RF-7iii pair on sale for $3600. That number is pretty digestible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 27, 2024 Share Posted December 27, 2024 23 minutes ago, Schu said: 21 hours ago, Deang said: Imagine a high level meeting and someone says, “So why does the forum exist, looks like it just ends up making more speaker companies.” this ^ is a shorty sighted view/statement... A business doesn't remain relevant by trying to control an active market segment Ha! Fwiw, I think the question posed is pertinent, but that wouldn't be the new owner's response unless they ONLY care about Heritage Speakers...Heck, I'm still wondering if this forum doesn't go silently to the wasteside as they cut costs given how many other online venues there are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted December 27, 2024 Share Posted December 27, 2024 Cant wait for the RF7- IV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted December 28, 2024 Share Posted December 28, 2024 On other online pages, people are constantly asking which Klipsch speaker to get for their current amps or what amp to get for their new Klipsch speakers. Most of the questions pertain to the Heritage line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 28, 2024 Share Posted December 28, 2024 14 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: On other online pages, people are constantly asking which Klipsch speaker to get for their current amps or what amp to get for their new Klipsch speakers. Most of the questions pertain to the Heritage line. Hmmm...I only visit here and AVS, but I find it hard to believe "most questions pertain to the Heritage line." 🤔 Fwiw, I don't think that's the case here or there, but these are the only 2 forums I visit. {Edit: I was shocked that the Klipsch Owner's Thread at AVS hasn't had a comment on it since Oct 28, 2024. It's 14 pages back in the Speaker Forum and a few Klipsch questions regarding lower end speakers but no Heritage questions to that point.} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted December 29, 2024 Share Posted December 29, 2024 8 hours ago, Zen Traveler said: Hmmm...I only visit here and AVS, but I find it hard to believe "most questions pertain to the Heritage line." 🤔 Comprehension or credibility? You might find it "hard to believe" what I stated, but you're talking about AVS and I am talking about McIntosh, Sansui, Marantz, Luxman, and other two-channel discussions and such. I can imagine people in the AVS world with their HT not understanding what is sought after in the stereo world. There are a lot of people who still enjoy Dynaco tube amps and such, and guess what speakers they like the best. I still have my Dynaco ST70, Mac MC30s, Amps & Sound, Audio Research and a few other tube amps. Most are asking about the Heresy IV, Forte IV, and Cornwall IV, and some are asking about the new LS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopardave Posted December 29, 2024 Share Posted December 29, 2024 On 12/27/2024 at 11:59 AM, Zen Traveler said: Ha! Fwiw, I think the question posed is pertinent, but that wouldn't be the new owner's response unless they ONLY care about Heritage Speakers...Heck, I'm still wondering if this forum doesn't go silently to the wasteside as they cut costs given how many other online venues there are. I used to come here for the mods section as i am a Klipsch owner and hobbiest, but once they frowned on making/talking about mods on Klipsch speakers most of us moved to AudioKarma. I only drop in here now to read the classified or tube section. I felt kinda pushed out so i left. I think they just wanted us to talk about how good their over priced speakers sound. Pertaining to my earlier post, I just read where Stellantis Chrysler is going to cut prices by 35% on old inventory. Maybe Klipsch should follow along here. If Barra doesnt get off the EV train(100% EV by2035) and Ford off raising prices into 2025, they will be left behind. Many including myself cant afford the new pricing on new vehicles. They are just simply gouging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 29, 2024 Share Posted December 29, 2024 12 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: Comprehension or credibility? You might find it "hard to believe" what I stated, but you're talking about AVS and I am talking about McIntosh, Sansui, Marantz, Luxman, and other two-channel discussions and such. Neither. Sales of new products. Fwiw, it wasn't a dig at you as much as I didn't see people buying New Heritage products and talking about them online...I understand your deservedly appreciative opinion of the Heritage line but I wonder how they will fit into the new ownership's POV given the Klipsch Museum may be more valuable than the current cost of manufacturing and how needs have changed. Of course you can see it differently and I don't own Heritage speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 29, 2024 Share Posted December 29, 2024 2 hours ago, mopardave said: used to come here for the mods section as i am a Klipsch owner and hobbiest, but once they frowned on making/talking about mods on Klipsch speakers most of us moved to AudioKarma. Understood. I gotta feel that's a niche market where purchaser of discontinued products have Klipsch fan appeal but notsomuch driving new product. I've followed y'alls debates and don't have a vested interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 29, 2024 Share Posted December 29, 2024 2 hours ago, mopardave said: I think they just wanted us to talk about how good their over priced speakers sound. Pertaining to my earlier post, I just read where Stellantis Chrysler is going to cut prices by 35% on old inventory. Maybe Klipsch should follow along here. Btw, I hope your reporting on cars makes it down to the consumer. Otoh, your analogy seems to fit consumer vs diy hobbyist and every speaker company seems to do as you suggest already. Fwiw, I purchased my Reference, Legend, and Synergy Home Theaters and never paid full price. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 29, 2024 Moderators Share Posted December 29, 2024 On 12/27/2024 at 10:48 AM, Schu said: Champagne taste... Beer Budget. that pretty much sum's up the Klipsch market segment. I think the Jubilee was purely a 'Passion Project'... and the market wasn't really looking for a Gigantic Imax theater 2-channel solution. The AL and AK seem to sit in a comfortable place in the market at MSRP minus 10%-20%... I feel the market appetite has really changed over the last handful of years and while people still want premium, they want it with a much smaller footprint and with more advanced technology and ease of use. manufacturers need to 'LISTEN' to what the market is telling them as opposed to trying to tell the market what it should want. Think that captures it. Where people come off the rails or get into the weeds is when they reach a conclusion that factors in Heritage and try to extrapolate that to all of Klipsch (the subsidiary Klipsch Group, Inc. (KGI)). Heritage sales, for the last 10 years, runs between 1 and 5% of KGI’s total gross sales. It was 1% in 2016. Think it doubled when they asked Roy to update the Forte (2017) Doubled again with the AK6, AL5, H3, and CW3 updates. But between 1 and 5%. It’s clear that people don’t understand this when they make some of the statements they do about how if they would do “X” with regard to Heritage it would have some significant impact on KGI. Like an asteroid striking a planet. When the reality is the impact is tossing a pebble in a lake. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 29, 2024 Moderators Share Posted December 29, 2024 1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said: Neither. Sales of new products. Fwiw, it wasn't a dig at you as much as I didn't see people buying New Heritage products and talking about them online...I understand your deservedly appreciative opinion of the Heritage line but I wonder how they will fit into the new ownership's POV given the Klipsch Museum may be more valuable than the current cost of manufacturing and how needs have changed. Of course you can see it differently and I don't own Heritage speakers. If your hunch from seeing the social media-various forum post traffic was Heritage sales was significantly less than Reference, that was absolutely correct. The publicly available number (annual/quarterly) reports don’t break down the sales numbers of Reference, Commercial, Heritage etc. Don’t you have Fortes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 29, 2024 Moderators Share Posted December 29, 2024 14 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: Comprehension or credibility? You might find it "hard to believe" what I stated, but you're talking about AVS and I am talking about McIntosh, Sansui, Marantz, Luxman, and other two-channel discussions and such. I can imagine people in the AVS world with their HT not understanding what is sought after in the stereo world. There are a lot of people who still enjoy Dynaco tube amps and such, and guess what speakers they like the best. I still have my Dynaco ST70, Mac MC30s, Amps & Sound, Audio Research and a few other tube amps. Most are asking about the Heresy IV, Forte IV, and Cornwall IV, and some are asking about the new LS. I think what he was suggesting, my interpretation, was that on the forums what he was seeing was the majority of “interest” on “new” purchases was on HT/Reference. I liked your point that it kinda depends on what Forums, social media groups you are in. I’m in several Facebook groups related to Klipsch (so I can post Museum info.) and Cory’s Klipsch Owners seems to be at least 10-1 questions about Reference to Heritage. Just wanted everyone to have some facts on where Heritage sits in the grand scheme of things at Klipsch so they are not shooting in the dark. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted December 29, 2024 Share Posted December 29, 2024 1 hour ago, Travis In Austin said: Heritage sales, for the last 10 years, runs between 1 and 5% of KGI’s total gross sales. I was aware of that, but I don't think that it was otherwise common knowledge. And I've been trying to think of another market where such a ratio also occurs -- selling between 20 and 100 of a company's mainstream product for every one of their premium product. Perhaps Chevrolet sells 100 Malibus for every Corvette? I don't know. But it is a sobering statistic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 29, 2024 Moderators Share Posted December 29, 2024 On 12/27/2024 at 10:59 AM, Zen Traveler said: Ha! Fwiw, I think the question posed is pertinent, but that wouldn't be the new owner's response unless they ONLY care about Heritage Speakers...Heck, I'm still wondering if this forum doesn't go silently to the wasteside as they cut costs given how many other online venues there are. Valid points and questions. The buyer is an automotive mirror maker (95% of their over $1B is sales is OEM auto-dimming rear view mirrors, auto-dimming side mirrors, rear view mirror camera screens). They are giant (with over 4K employees), very profitable, but wholly reliant upon the new car sales market. They are trying to diversify into other segments (about 4% is auto-dimming windows in commercial aviation Boeing and AirBus). They are buying Voxx which is pretty much 3 things: OEM Car Audio, Premium Audio, and Eyelock (maybe one day). Think I read in the OP that Buyer was interested in the Eyelock. There clearly could be a tie-in with building the OEM automotive audio. What KGI does just really doesn’t fit in on what they have been doing on M&A last 10 years. My first question is what they plan to do with the subsidiary, Klipsch Group, Inc. Use Klipsch brand for OEM automotive audio? (Like Mark Levinson, Bose, Meridian, McIntosh). Use manufacturing partnership Voxx has with Sharp (Onkyo) to make OEM automotive products? Did they offer to buy Voxx because they wanted OEM automotive audio? The possibilities of Eyelock. The Klipsch subsidiary- home audio and commercial speakers? All of the above? Something else? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted December 29, 2024 Share Posted December 29, 2024 1 hour ago, Travis In Austin said: They are trying to diversify into other segments ... In my 40+ year career I saw it happen multiple times: The CEO or the BOD decide that they want to enter a new market, so they buy their way into it. In cases where there was an obvious fit between their existing markets and the new, it took a while (and a lot of pain and suffering) but they were ultimately successful. In cases where that fit was not so obvious, they either ended-up selling-off the misfit business segment, or abandoning it. And it didn't take a genius or a clairvoyant to tell when the fit was obvious, and when it was not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted December 30, 2024 Share Posted December 30, 2024 7 hours ago, Travis In Austin said: Don’t you have Fortes? No. Right now I`m listening to some obnoxiously loud Oingo Boingo and enjoying it immensely on a Klipsch 9.2 based Library System. We have RF-7s/RC-7/RB-5s(Height)/RSW 12 up front and 4 RB-75s as Surrounds and Rears with the 2nd RSW-15 taking up the low end in a 9.2 configuration. Ha! Almost old school in the Home Theater world. 😁 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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