Got my AL5's as upgrade to Forte IV's but I feel like I am missing something.

[herberk]

I need some input to help me think ... I had a set of Forte IV's driven by a Decware SEA84UFO 25th anniversary amp for a few years, I sometimes used my little Rega Brio amp on them too for things like watching movies both sounded amazing I was legitimately sad to see them go when I traded them in.

 

I decided to upgrade to the speakers I always looked on in awe the LaScala's after weighing options I opted for AL5's as I really like the old school analogue approach ( I built a few Bottlehead amps etc and like to play around with different amps etc) and AL6's although it looks AMAZING looks like it will do best with active bi-amping etc and I am not quite ready for that endeavor.

 

I got the AL5's hooked then up and initial reaction is mixed I will try summarize my experience ... (I am using a Rega Planar 8 with a Rega Apheta 3 Cartridge and a Rega Aria MK3 preamp)

 

Whats Great:

- Songs like Eva Cassidy - Fields of Gold and similar like Nora Jones sounds absolutely heavenly. So does most more laid back records I have think Simon and Garfunkel, Cat Stevens etc etc

- These things are FAST tracks like Paul Simon Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints really pop with drum solos sounding way more alive than the Forte's managed.

 

Things I miss:

- Tracks like Dire Straits Money for nothing lacks the punchy bottom end I got from the Forte's I feel like the Forte's added more contrast to help the track shine.

- Tracks like My Home town by Bruce Springsteen seem a little flatter this track has a punchy rhythm thats there and more energetic on the LS but not as punchy and contrasting.

 

When I decided to upgrade I considered going to Cornwalls but then went big and got the LS.

 

So after a LONG ramble question for folks who know both speakers, do I wait for the LS to run in a few hours get used to the lack of punch (perhaps add a sub at some stage although researching this seems a mixed bag) and appreciate all thats amazing or do I return them (limited time to do so) and get Cornwalls and go back to the more familiar sound of the hybrid speakers. I am not sure if playing around with placement etc might make a big enough difference but open to all input.

 

Thanks for your time and input folks!
 

[Schu]

you made the right decision... live with them for a while.

the AL is a superior speaker to the CW or Forte... in every way.

adding a subwoofer to the AL is in no way a 'mixed bag'.

 

IF you like the sound of LF distortion, maybe you should have gotten the direct radiating speaker.

[billybob1]

Welcome @herberk...I would really play those at moderate volume, bass heavy music to determine if woofer loosening up from use. Another is, your capacitors in speakers allowed to form from use. Or continue to seek information from member like above.

[OO1]

1 hour ago, herberk said:

do I wait for the LS to run in a few hours get used to the lack of punch (perhaps add a sub at some stage although researching this seems a mixed bag) and appreciate all thats amazing or do I return them (limited time to do so) 
 

 a subwoofer will enhance the AL-5 or a Cornwall , subwoofers compliment all Klipsch speakers , but not all subs are equal ,  some are better 

[82 Cornwalls]

This tells you all you need to know about the bass of La Scalas.

[jjptkd]

1 hour ago, Schu said:

the AL is a superior speaker to the CW or Forte... in every way.

 

This seems a bit subjective- just a few ways off the top of my head that they are in fact inferior; size, price and low end extension. "Quality bass" down to what, 80hz? Otherwise fantastic speakers! I think it's quite telling that the new AL6 literally has not one thing in common with the AL5 other than outward appearances. 

[herberk]

34 minutes ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

This tells you all you need to know about the bass of La Scalas.

Can you expand ? 

[jjptkd]

2 hours ago, herberk said:

 do I wait for the LS to run in a few hours get used to the lack of punch (perhaps add a sub at some stage although researching this seems a mixed bag) and appreciate all thats amazing or do I return them (limited time to do so) and get Cornwalls and go back to the more familiar sound of the hybrid speakers. I am not sure if playing around with placement etc might make a big enough difference but open to all input.

 

Thanks for your time and input folks!
 

 

 I'd give them as much run in time as you can and consider adding quality subwoofer if you plan to keep them. I had the forte IV's and really enjoyed them- it seems the overwhelming majority believe the Cornwall IV is a significant step up from them so I'd be tempted to go that route myself if I were in your shoes. 

[jjptkd]

7 minutes ago, herberk said:

Can you expand ? 

 

Frequency response drops like a rock at 60hz- forte IV is rated down to 38hz by comparison, Cornwall IV even lower at 34hz.

[herberk]

1 minute ago, jjptkd said:

 

Frequency response drops like a rock at 60hz- forte IV is rated down to 38hz by comparison, Cornwall IV even lower at 34hz.

Thanks yeah I should probably have A/B'd the La Scalas and the Cornwalls 

[herberk]

I know graphs don't tell the whole story but do you have a similar one for Cornwalls ? @82 Cornwalls ?

[John Chi-town]

Although the Cornwall IV digs slightly lower, it does not provide the "punchy" bass of the forte IV, which is apparently what you miss based on your description above.  The low end means a lot INMHO.  Regardless of how many hours you put on those Lascala's you will need to augment with a sub to get the low end you are looking for.  

[82 Cornwalls]

3 hours ago, herberk said:

Can you expand ? 

 

As you have found low bass missing or greatly reduced in impact and after a while I started noticing the peaks around 150Hz in certain songs.

 

[82 Cornwalls]

Graph from Stereophile review measurements.

 

Link to Forte III

https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-forte-iii-loudspeaker-measurements

[82 Cornwalls]

.

 

[John Chi-town]

Many have probably seen this video review, but it addresses the OP's original post.  Good review, however, I completely disagree with the placement of the forte IV speakers.  8-10 inches from wall works the best in my environment.  

 

Bing Videos

[Dave MacKay]

11 hours ago, herberk said:

I need some input to help me think ... I had a set of Forte IV's driven by a Decware SEA84UFO 25th anniversary amp for a few years, I sometimes used my little Rega Brio amp on them too for things like watching movies both sounded amazing I was legitimately sad to see them go when I traded them in.

 

I decided to upgrade to the speakers I always looked on in awe the LaScala's after weighing options I opted for AL5's as I really like the old school analogue approach ( I built a few Bottlehead amps etc and like to play around with different amps etc) and AL6's although it looks AMAZING looks like it will do best with active bi-amping etc and I am not quite ready for that endeavor.

 

I got the AL5's hooked then up and initial reaction is mixed I will try summarize my experience ... (I am using a Rega Planar 8 with a Rega Apheta 3 Cartridge and a Rega Aria MK3 preamp)

 

Whats Great:

- Songs like Eva Cassidy - Fields of Gold and similar like Nora Jones sounds absolutely heavenly. So does most more laid back records I have think Simon and Garfunkel, Cat Stevens etc etc

- These things are FAST tracks like Paul Simon Graceland and Rhythm of the Saints really pop with drum solos sounding way more alive than the Forte's managed.

 

Things I miss:

- Tracks like Dire Straits Money for nothing lacks the punchy bottom end I got from the Forte's I feel like the Forte's added more contrast to help the track shine.

- Tracks like My Home town by Bruce Springsteen seem a little flatter this track has a punchy rhythm thats there and more energetic on the LS but not as punchy and contrasting.

 

When I decided to upgrade I considered going to Cornwalls but then went big and got the LS.

 

So after a LONG ramble question for folks who know both speakers, do I wait for the LS to run in a few hours get used to the lack of punch (perhaps add a sub at some stage although researching this seems a mixed bag) and appreciate all thats amazing or do I return them (limited time to do so) and get Cornwalls and go back to the more familiar sound of the hybrid speakers. I am not sure if playing around with placement etc might make a big enough difference but open to all input.

 

Thanks for your time and input folks!
 

I had a similar experience with my La Scalas (which aren’t AL5s). Springsteen, Prince, U2 … all were underwhelming.

I ultimately addressed it by adding two subwoofers and tri-amping the speakers using an active crossover (DSP). Now I’m very pleased with the speakers. But some artists still don’t sound as good as I think they ought to. And others sound better than they ever did.

[Woofers and Tweeters]

2 hours ago, Dave MacKay said:

Springsteen, Prince, U2 … all were underwhelming.

Agreed lol

 

 

13 hours ago, herberk said:

perhaps add a sub

A folded horn sub is what you deserve and need. 

[gigantic]

You're missing the bass response, time and phase coherence that you got with your Fortes. By comparison, the LaScala are going to sound bigger, (because they are) and have better mid bass and midrange, however, as you're described, will have less low end punch than the Forte. Because the Forte has better time and phase alignment, it will also have better psycho-acoustic properties,  presenting a better soundstage and imaging than the LaScala. However, very few speakers can beat the mid bass of the Lascala, from 110-400Hz, there's not much that can touch it and the mid range, from 400-5000Hz is pretty compelling, although some find the 1" K401 horn and driver to be on the boxy and shouty side of the spectrum. A subwoofer or two will take care of the bass response, but correcting the phase and time alignment takes more effort than many are willing to endure, as well as additional gear: a pro DSP crossover and multiple amps, (at least three), as well as a calibrated measuring mic, a laptop with Room Eq Wizard, a surplus of patience and time to dial it all in and ideally, someone to advise you on the process. 
Your best bet is to get a sub and learn to enjoy your LaScala. Eventually, you may convince yourself that they sound great, particularly as the memory of the Fortes fade. This will cost you nothing but time to adjust to them. 

[Marvel]

I've only had earlier LS, but always pulled the mids down some. Bringing the overall volume back up to have the mids sound good, also tends to make the bass more apparent. Never used subs with them, and wish I had never let them go. I certainly have room for them.