steve Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 but the response was usually of a demeaning nature..like I was the only one who asked the question! But I'll try it again.. Currently I use an Adcom preamp (the GFP565, SS, touted as a great preamp a number of years ago) and an Assemblage 300B SET tube amp (8 watts a side) I am pleased with the sound, mated to my '83 KHorns (I am the original owner) but I'd like to find a tube preamp with (yes..) tone controls! OK..I can feel the eyebrows arching! But let me explain! My music room is 14 x 21 but it has a concrete floor, covered by berber carpet. I used to have the speakers in a room with wood based floors, and the bass response was a lot greater! So now I compensate with tone controls. (no, can't move 'em back to old room..will keep wife awake!) So I guess this is a twofold question. (1) Any suggestions for a good tube preamp with tone controls?? (2) Thinking I may have got it backwards..should I go to a tube preamp with NO tone controls, and go with a SS amp for the increased bass response?? I'm not dying here, as I love the sound I have, but I'd like a little more bass output (without a sub..tried it, unnatural..didn't like it!) Anything over 90DB (yes, I measured) starts getting too shrill, bass goes away) Thanx for all serious responses! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Hi, I would recommend the AVA Trancendence Seven. It has tone controls that can be engaged or taken out of the circuit with a push of a button. This pre-amp has put many more expensive pre-amps to shame. I am currently drive a Hybrid Tube amp and a piar of SET Monoblocks with it. Also they have a home trial period of 30 days. You can't go wrong here. Here is the link to their website. www.avahifi.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 For vintage alternatives a rebuilt AR SP-3a (buy for $500 and spend $500 for upgrading?), Marantz 7C (buy for $2,000 and spend $500?), Harmon and Kardon Citation 1 ($400 and spend $500?) or McIntosh C22 ($2,000 and spend $500?) would all fit the bill. New is harder and fewer...the Van Alstine (avahifi) Transcendence Seven ($1,700) is highly regarded around here, the McIntosh C2200 ($4,000) is great! and the Audiovalve Eklipse ($2,000) from germany...that's about all I can think of. Unfortunatley the purists are kings of the hill right now. As always seems to be the case money dictates in what company you run...I suppose you could have one built for you as well for about $2,000-3,000. warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 I don't think you will get slammed here for Tone controls anymore this forum has changed a good measure on the last year. I have used tone controls often on my various integrated amps and vintage preamps and some do the job well. I guess what I would want to know is what is your preference new or used. New will be a tuff cookie to crack. Vintage there are many offerings that work descent. I personally have the ability to tune my amps and setup to achieve tonal balance without tone control use but most people do not have this option. I would stay away from the Vintage units Mark mentioned because he is correct there tone control circuits leave allot the be desired. Scott preamp tone controls work pretty darn good {130 and LC-21} but these preamp are hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 If you want real eq (har, har!) go to the manley labs site and check out their Pultec EQ. The originals are really sought after. Costs dollars though ($2k +). THey have bypass swithces. They aren't pretty, but they sound (or don't have a sound) wonderful. http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpages/eqp1a99.html Too bad they are so ugly. They are meant for studio racks. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 "For vintage alternatives a rebuilt AR SP-3a (buy for $500 and spend $500 for upgrading?)" What kind of rebuild are you talking about here? Just curious. I know that AR is still in the business of upgrading their older units, and Curcio does this also (although he believes in newly available tubes and he changes out the 12ax7s to something else he likes better that you can obtain new today and not get into the whole NOS 12AX7 thing. Both AR and Curcio charge a bit more than $500 these days for the mod. Currently I use a stock Paragon 12A, but hardly ever need to use the tone controls, but they are really cool when you need them. c&s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 How does the system sound with no preamp at all (passive volume control or source with integral volume control)? I believe that, as a rule, less distorted sound sounds better. Every active stage adds distortion. Returns do diminish if a source doesn't have the line capability to effectively drive the amp input stage. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 hence the question mark, meant to connote my uncertainty about specific pricing. also, a third party outfit like craig (or a half dozen others I know about) would charge about that for simply replacing old caps, the resisitors in the signal path and some review/parts swap in the PSU. I paid $275 for such treatment of my 7T preamp to good result, and about $500 for the work on my MkIVs amps...ballpark figures assuming no boutique parts. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 I am sure that's true, not my luck so far...but true LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted June 5, 2003 Author Share Posted June 5, 2003 I was pleasantly surprised when I saw all the (positive) responses! What a great support group, yes things have changed since I visited last! Thanx to all who answered. Mdeneen, thanx for the backing on tone controls. I do like them, especially when it comes to a little extra bass. In answer to Leok's question, the Adcom has a bypass output, and I have employed this..and yes Leok, you're right in a sense..the REST of the music is less muddled with the tone controls completely out of the circuit, but the bottom end is lacking. I still suspect it's the structure of the room..but I can't do much about it now..(at least I don't think I can!) NOS, I have no pref for new, or used..as long as it works, and sounds good. I'm pretty open to all suggestions..welcome them really! Tony, Marvel, Cutthroat-thanx for the many suggestions. Will research them and see if they fit the bill for me! Again, thanx guys for the help. Glad to be checking out the BB again. Regards, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Steve, If Vintage fancies you try and find a HH Scott 130 or LC-21 I have a 130 pushing my Mark III's right now and the sound is nothing short of stunning. But be real careful and find you a nice example. The LC-21 is a kit that is kind of the stripped down version of the 130 in a way. It usually goes for less and is way less expensive to rebuild and all and all produces the same basic sound. The 130 has more feature and most are useless. It does have separate level controls for all 4 of it inputs which is useful. If vinyl is in the future plan of things the Scott phono section is hard to beat very pleasing sound !! Plus I personally think they look great ! I would recommend a EICO HF-85 but its tone controls are not really all that good in fact none of the controls are stellar but it does have a very nice sound ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted June 5, 2003 Author Share Posted June 5, 2003 thanx Craig. I'l keep that in mind about the Scott preamps..will have to keep an eye out on Ebay..and I do need a phono input..I still have close to 800 albums..although most have been replaced on CD for convenience. All info greatly appreciated! Regards, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 How about BAT...quality name. http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?preatube&1060128952&class&3&4& Or ARC SP16 for $1600? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Craig, There is some kind of interesting upgrade for the Eico HF-85 on the Eico forum at YahooGroups.com. Unfortunately I could not download it from the "files" section, it is in the folder called Eico Schematics: "EICO HF-85 Preamp FP Mod.pps" I thought you might be interested in whatever it was, maybe you can download it. c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Clipped I have done the mod before. I didn't hear any earth shattering results ! They did this big shoot out using one with the Mod and one without. I thought there conclusions were kind of a kick. They concluded the the FP mod somehow transformed a Ill operating out of spec HF-85 into something great. But with a good working unit it changed very little if anything at all. Seemed pretty silly to me ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 C&S, Could you not download the file or just not open it? With a.pps extension, it sounds like a PowerPoint Show. What is the full link to it? Steve, I only know from reading and talking to a bunch of recording engineer folk that the Pultec is supposed to be a VERY transparent piece of gear, albeit pricey. You can set the width of the boost or cut, as a parametric eq. All very smooth sounding. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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