mmiles Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 What is a HTPC? I thought it was a PC with a special DVD ROM transport and special (industry specific) Video Card for playing DVD's in hi-res.? If I'm correct can you use any type PC? What is the hardware and OS requirements? What are the advantages and disadvantages versus a high end DVD/Universal Player? Over on the AVS Forum many members, usually those with projectors, have HTPC's connected in their system. Comments? Regards, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Mike - I believe there are numerous threads, even primers, on HTPCs over at AVS Forum - pros/cons/how to build one/etc... The pros seem to be flexibility and control, overall. The cons seem to be complexity, lack of stability (Windoze, you know) and equipment noise. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Mike Building a HTPC is on my to-do list. Here is why. Standard DVD's are 480p. To get them to Hi Def you need to use the TV or projectors processor which are only so-so. The other option is to use an outside processor or line doubler to create the HD image to input into the TV or projector. This does a better job, but very expensive. HTPC can do this at a fraction of the cost. You can program your output to match the exact resolution of your TV/projector. The PC can do a lot better job than the inbord processor. The only downside is inherant Microsoft PC problems. Reboots etc. I plan to use a Linux OS, not sure yet which one. If I was not a computer person, I probably would not try it. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Mike- I have a HTPC, its sole purpose in life is to play DVDs on my projector. It's nothing fancy, just the following HW: Asus A7V Motherboard (VIA KT133 chipset) AMD Athlon "Thunderbird" 750MHz CPU ELSA GLADIAC GeForce2 GTS (nVidia GeForce2 64Mb RAM) M-Audio Revolution 7.1 sound card SCSI HDs (LOUD damn HDs....going to replace with new HDs some day) TheaterTek DVD player software Girder & USB-IRT for IR Remote control of TheaterTek!!!! It use to be my main PC, but I have a new notebook that is faster, so I really wasn't using it too much so it moved over to HTPC duties. A lot of users in the AVS forum have SERIOUS grips against the early VIA chipsets for AMD processors and generally biased against AMD CPUs. A lot of users feel that they are unstable and crappy, however, I'm a fan of AMD and feel that their design has a superior floating point engine, which was important for my research work when the computer was originally built. The primary advantages of Intel CPUs over AMD is the following... 1) have a built-in temperature measurement device, 2) have a heat spreader (won't crack the core if you place the heat sink wrong) 3) generally have a lower heat signature (although the difference isn't so great anymore with the P4s) 4) have higher clock speeds (currently 3.2 GHz) I believe that the reason why a lot of ppl have problems with their systems is that they are trying to push the limits of the hardware and software. In other words, trying to use the PC as a Pre/Pro, PVR, Music Server, and DVD player.... which is fine, but some of these programs are not very stable. I haven't ever had TheaterTek or Windows XP crash in the middle of watching a DVD, sure I have had a few hiccups, but I haven't been able to localize the problem as software related or hardware (some have been due to dirty DVDs from NetFlix). The ONLY grip I have about the HTPC, specifically TheaterTek, is that doesn't do a great job of working with poorly flagged DVDs. I was watching "Sunshine" last night, and it would flip between film (24 fps) and Video (30 fps) which would cause loads of combing problems. VERY ANNOYING!! But, the gain in details on good movies is SO GREAT (as compared to S-Video signal from my Denon DVD-1000 player since my projector doesn't have Component inputs) that I will tolerate some combing. The primary advantage of using a HTPC is to feed the native resolution of the projector thereby bypassing the scalars in the projector and using the superior scaling capibilities of the video card when viewing DVDs (I believe Doug Drake is incorrect, most DVDs are encoded at 480i, and can be deinterlaced by DVD player to output 480p) and HDTV. The most popular video cards for HTPC use seem to be the ATI Radeons, primarily due to the fact that they have DVI interfaces, can output interlaced resolutions, and have the "All-in-Wonder" style, aka S-video output, TV tuner, etc. Some ppl swear that they produce superior picture quality, but I'm unsure of this since I haven't seen dierct evidence. IMHO, the most important aspect to make your HTPC a GREAT dvd player is remote control of all aspects of the DVD software, TheaterTek is FANTASTIC for this since it comes with Girder plug-ins & Pronto CCFs and all you need to do is get a IR detector. I use the USB-IRT, it did take a few hours to setup, but works great. Another advantage of the HTPC is that you can use it to view High Definition content, most notably Windows Media Player 9 encoded HD, which is currently not possible with hardware based players, but in typically MS fashion it requires a 3Ghz CPU. However, the disadvantages of a HTPC is 1) can been noisy 2) can be a large form factor 3) unstable (I have learned from being a PC nut for way toooo long, you buy from established companies and you PAY that extra $10 for a quality component. DON'T GO FOR THE CHEAPEST HARDWARE!!! Often the cheapest hardware have major stability problems and CRAP drivers) Hope this helps...... -Dave I'm actually should be receiving a new projector (Sanyo PLV-Z1) tomorrow that has component inputs so I can compare the quality of DVDs via VGA & component. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 I'm surprised no-one mentionned the PVR (personal Video recorder) options available for a HTPC... just an added feature, and much cheaper than the commercially available units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 As for The PC noise as Pyro points out. What I plan to do is to put my PC in the storge space behind my rack. That way the fan, HD noice etc will not be in my listening room. What I have is an old broken DLT tape drive which is basically a 5 1/4 external bay. I plan to mount my DVD drive into the old DLT box and put that on my rack shelf in my room. I then will run the Audio and IDE cables through the wall to the PC in the storage room. MAybe this idea may help others. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 you can nearly silence a computer with proper fans and sound absorbers. mine is nearly to that point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Boone Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 ---------------- On 6/16/2003 2:30:28 PM DrPyro wrote: I believe that the reason why a lot of ppl have problems with their systems ---------------- The reason ppl have problems with their computers is that they use cheap motherboards. The key to a stable computer\system is the motherboard. In my main workstation I use a Tyan Thunderbolt dual processor motherboard with onboard Adaptec dual channel ultra2scsi adapter. The board alone was $525.00 in 1999. I'm using 2 500mHz Intel P3 processors and have for several years. No hurry to upgrade the cpus at this point. I have updated video and sound though. So if you want a stable system invest in a good professional workstation grade motherboard. You won't regret it. Tony B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Justin is absolutely correct. If you by a decent case and quality fans the PC will be nearly silent. My HPs and Dell project a slight whisper. The DVD player in the computer creates more noise than the computer, which has 3 fans. The HTPC is a great idea especially for incorporating digital and video cameras. But I opt to use the DVD and receiver combo and leave the PC as a seperate entity. As far as OSes go I am using XP and it does a fantastic job playing movies and editing photos. Then again the Sony XBR provides an awesome picture. And reboots are not a big deal since the computer gets shut down every night and from turn on to ready is 37 seconds. barely enough time for the TV to be warmed up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 ---------------- On 6/16/2003 5:02:53 PM bruinsrme wrote: Justin is absolutely correct. from turn on to ready is 37 seconds. barely enough time for the TV to be warmed up ---------------- Of course I am correct tee hee My computer starts up in 30 seconds pretty reliably. I can ready it to play music on it from startup faster than I can turn on the rest of the equipment, and it can do 24/192 and Hi-Def DVD's and soon DVD-A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 My two computers can be considered steroid boosted HTPC's,building a good HTPC is very very easy. A. The HTPC must be silent and run as cool as possible B. The HTPC must be capable of playing thru Windows Media Player the highest rez encoded movies you can find. C. Good cordless mouse(remote control)and cordless internet keyboard D. S Video and composite outs with a posibility of using the three color component out. Select a quiet good quality case,an Antec SX630II does quite well and comes with a very quiet 300W Antec PSU.If you want super quiet get a Antec TruePower 330W or 430W PSU,fan control and as quiet as it can get. First you start with a stable MOBO(motherboard),like an Intel based 875 MOBO.This done you move to the CPU a 2.4GHZ 800FSB P4(retail version with the quiet fan on the heatsink).Add two 512MB PC3200 DDR sticks(Kingston)RAM is dirt cheap these days so dont be a cheapo. Now the video card,an ATI Radeon 9000 All In Wonder 64MB does it all and even comes with a RF mouse/remote.Great card and inexpensive.Super quiet and does not heat much.Great for all even a good bit of gaming. If you want all out gaming torque then the ATI Radeon 9700PRO All In Wonder is all the 9000AIW is plus massive gaming 3D power. Now a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz or Creative Audigy II sound card and you are set.The Intel MOBO has an Intel LAN onboard so you dont need any ethernet cards. And maybe a moldy modem if you want to send faxes or are still on 56K phone connection. Cordless keyboard and mouse I would look at the Logitech Elite Duo.Good little combo. Now hard drive I would get the most quiet and solid workhorse I can,here the Seagate Barracuda based IDE or a Western Digital JB series is recommended. For CD/DVD playback get a Toshiba CD/DVD,the most solid drive around save for much more expensive Plextor.And if you want a doit all drive get the Plextor combo drive CD/DVD and CDRW.Great solid drive. Throw the floppy in and you should be almost set.Get Microsoft Windows XP Hone edition.The Pro will only add to the cost(more stable it is NOT,dont belive some comics who may tell you Home edition is not stable) And to end Intel CPU's on Intel boards are ideal for office and HTPC use.They have no issues like VIA,SIS and Nvidia chipsets(yes I know Nvidia chipsets based boards are currently only made for AMD CPU's).The new AMD Barton based cores(2500XP,2800XP,3000XP and newest 3200XP)run as cool as Intel and on a Tyan KT400 board they are very solid and stable too. Just dont belive the hype if someone tells you there is anything as rugged as an Intel P4 on an Intel board(845,850,865,7205 or 875 based).Fact is its as stable as it gets.And will last to the day you need someting faster in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 ---------------- On 6/16/2003 6:05:09 PM TheEAR wrote: Now hard drive I would get the most quiet and solid workhorse I can,here the Seagate Barracuda based IDE or a Western Digital JB series is recommended. ---------------- I can vouch for the Western Digital JB series harddrive. I replaced the 45 gig harddrive that was in my UltimateTV harddrive recorder/DirecTV reciever with the Western Digital WD1200JB 120 gig drive, yielding me about 105 hours of recording capability. It is extremely quiet - hell that stupid little fan that is inside the UltimateTV unit is louder than the drive itself. Also, the drive runs pretty cool - the DAC and tuners in the unit throws out more heat than the drive does. I went and stuck another one inside one of my computers so I can use it as a multi-media server. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 If you're concerned about the noise the computer generates, do what we DAW-based recording studios do - isolate it. It's not difficult or expensive to build (or purchase prefab) an isolation box for your PC. As far as the video outputs on the soundcard, I'm quite astonished by you people talking about using S-Video for HD output. That's just silly. You can't get anything close to the accuracy of DVI/component/RGB out with an S-Video cable. It just won't happen. To me, having S-video out on a soundcard is a positively useless feature. I don't care how big or beautiful my TV is, I'm not interested in switching my display out down to 640x480 in order to make sure I can display it on my TV. One thing to make sure of - that your video card does actually support widescreen display out. A lot of them don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I am amazed no one mentioned it ....HP makes an actual HTPC. It runs a special version of Windows XP on a computer made specifically for music & video. It even has a special remote & TV output, Tivo like software etc....EVEN KLIPSCH ON 2 OF THE MODELS!!! The link is here: ">HP media center link BTW.... I have seen it in action... It sucks....It's Overpriced.... It's hard to use.... ETC.... SO: Build your own! (just like everyone above said!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 ---------------- On 6/17/2003 1:24:10 AM cyclonecj wrote: I am amazed no one mentioned it ....HP makes an actual HTPC BTW.... I have seen it in action... It sucks....It's Overpriced.... It's hard to use.... ETC.... SO: Build your own! (just like everyone above said!) ---------------- That is why no one mentions it. Sony makes one as well, so do Alienware. All WIndowsXP Mediacenter PC's recomend Klipsch ProMedia speakers to be used with them, most packaged together. Great sound, poor computing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmiles Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 Thanks to all for your valuable input. I have got a tremendous amount of information regarding the how to's of building a HTPC. From a hardware and OS standpoint it looks like that you don't need a super box for HTPC use, which is good. Just yesterday we uncovered a DELL PII350 and DELL P3 550 (Optiplex GX1) pc's in the warehouse! But I still some downside and to me these are: Cost (vs. Standalone DVD player) Size (you can get small cased but you still need a monitor) Noise(no real biggy to me, me DELL is as quiet as a mouse) Video Mix (it seems that the DVI output is most appreciated on a PJ. what about a RPTV or plasma?) Give me the bottom line will the end result (PICTURE QUALITY) ber better than a mid range DVD player (estimated cost $1000 - $1500 to build HTPC)? Regards, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 A computer like mine or of course the ears would be better than buying a DVD player and a CD player and an HDTV decoder and a cable tuner. You can do all this on the computer and each one is cheaper than a seperates setup. Plus, Computer DVD's can do HD-DVD's which no standalone dvd player can do right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio80 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 This is the predicament I am in, do i take the guts from my old computer which was just upgraded and build my sister a computer, or do I build a HTPC for myself, I'm leaning towards sister, I could use the good karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 ---------------- On 6/18/2003 11:07:09 AM justin_tx_16 wrote: HDTV decoder and a cable tuner. You can do all this on the computer and each one is cheaper than a seperates setup. ---------------- Just curious which hardware/software solution you guys are using for HDTV ... and is it compatible with DirectTV (or canadian ExpressVu) and the like? I haven't gone digital yet as i found the HDTV broadcasting lacking and decoders expensive (like ExpessVu 6000 at 750$) Thanks... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrgSkidmark Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Mike, I kinda sorta followed the article Extreme TiVO PC from extremetech.com from last week and their previous one. http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1121844,00.asp http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,838247,00.asp The inspiration came from Intel's site: http://www.intel.com/english/home/customize/build/example.htm I've had one running now for 2 weeks. After the June 10 article I finished it up with TiVO capabilities. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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