Griffinator Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 I mentioned the song I was mixing in another thread - I'd love to get a few opinions now that I've bashed my head into a few walls getting it through at least that stage of the process. (No, there's been no post-production done yet - I couldn't possibly listen to it objectively at this point) http://artistlaunch.com/artists/songs/1218_-_Once_Upon_A_Dream.mp3 PS: It's a slightly prog-leaning rock tune - some have said it's reminscient of Blue Oyster Cult, just in case you need an advance warning Also - my apologies about the 128k bitrate - they won't allow anything higher at that particular site, and I have nowhere to upload a 7-10 MB file... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 21, 2003 Share Posted June 21, 2003 Griff, Nice! Not my style, but it is doing okay, even with the 128k bit rate. Is it all you or do you have other folks playing on the cut? What gear do you have in your studio as well? Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 21, 2003 Author Share Posted June 21, 2003 ---------------- On 6/21/2003 6:11:04 PM Marvel wrote: Griff, Nice! Not my style, but it is doing okay, even with the 128k bit rate. Is it all you or do you have other folks playing on the cut? What gear do you have in your studio as well? Marvel ---------------- Not quite all me - a really talented drummer cut those tracks - I did the rest. My gear list for this track? Pretty short and relatively unimpressive. - 1.13Ghz Thunderbird/256MB DDR/2-drive IDE RAID/Sonar 2.2 - Alesis AI3 A/D converter - Mackie 24VLZ-Pro - Yamaha BB-series 5-string bass (can't remember the # right offhand) - Hartke Kickback 15 - Fender Lead I - Fender Performer 1000 - Carvin 4x12 cab - Rode NT4 (condensor mic) - Marshall MX-2001 (condensor mic) - Hughes & Kettner Redbox (great for doubling guitars - completely different tone than a miked cab, but way better than direct-in) the rest is pretty much software - primarily Waves products (Trueverb, C1, L1, C4, SuperTap) Mixing (to this point) has been done primarily on my two-channel setup listed below and a pair of Sony MDR-V600 headphones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 doink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 I like it. I think that is pretty good. The vocal track needs a little more gain, since the vocals seem to get drowned out by the supporting musical structure at times, thus making the lyrics hard to understand. Beyond that, I like it. That is is nice start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 23, 2003 Author Share Posted June 23, 2003 Thanks for your feedback. That's been a struggle on this track. I made a decision early on to not use the traditional compression and doubling effects on the vocal, and instead just ride the hell out of the faders to try and balance it against the music (without dominating the mix). I'll definitely focus more attention on how it's sitting amongst that wall of guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Griff- I just listened on my POS computer speaks at work, so I can't comment on a whole lot, and keep that in mind in reference to my other comments... Performance-wise, nothing to worry about there. I feel the snare and guitars were living in the same mid-range. 1 or 2dB cut around 800Hz, maybe on the snare to make it a little narrower, freq-wise (again, tough to say on these speaks). It sounds to me like you used the same guitar on all the tracks. I like to mix up equipment when layering parts for more texture. Regarding the vocals, you do a good job of riding faders! Why no compression, though? Even 2:1, comping 3dB peaks I think would help firm things up IMO. The vocal performance on the first verse is a bit inconsistent dynamically. I also might do a some light stereo doubling with DDL. Maybe 17ms to one side and 25ms to the other, hard-panned. You should not hear discrete delays, just a thickening. When you do this, the stereo image will shift to the side with the shorter delay time due to the precedence effect. Balance this by ear, not with your meters! They will lie! Lots of good stuff happening here. I was a big BOC fan in my youth, and can understand the comparison in the guitar tone and vocal presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 ---------------- On 6/24/2003 11:24:11 AM bclarke421 wrote: Griff- I just listened on my POS computer speaks at work, so I can't comment on a whole lot, and keep that in mind in reference to my other comments... Performance-wise, nothing to worry about there. I feel the snare and guitars were living in the same mid-range. 1 or 2dB cut around 800Hz, maybe on the snare to make it a little narrower, freq-wise (again, tough to say on these speaks). It sounds to me like you used the same guitar on all the tracks. I like to mix up equipment when layering parts for more texture. Regarding the vocals, you do a good job of riding faders! Why no compression, though? Even 2:1, comping 3dB peaks I think would help firm things up IMO. The vocal performance on the first verse is a bit inconsistent dynamically. I also might do a some light stereo doubling with DDL. Maybe 17ms to one side and 25ms to the other, hard-panned. You should not hear discrete delays, just a thickening. When you do this, the stereo image will shift to the side with the shorter delay time due to the precedence effect. Balance this by ear, not with your meters! They will lie! Lots of good stuff happening here. I was a big BOC fan in my youth, and can understand the comparison in the guitar tone and vocal presentation. ---------------- Wow - lot to digest here. Can't really cut the snare, without cutting the entire kit (overheads and kick mics only on this particular track) - but I may experiment with cutting that frequency range on the guitars. I did use the same axe and amp on the guitar passages, but went for a very different tonality between lead and rhythm guitars (notice the rhythm tracks are decidedly more throaty than the leads, which have more gain and hence more bite) - I may try using my Lead I for the rhythm tracks. (if I can get it to intonate properly) Re: comping the vocals - I've gotten really tired of the artifacts I hear constantly on vocals - I thought I'd experiment with keeping them as dynamically pure as possible, so as not to screw up the natural inflections. I may have to take your advice, however, just to tighten them up enough to bring the quiet passages through the mix. I used a very subtle combination of quick two-tap delay and a very thick plate reverb to get the vocals to stand out. I guess it was subtle enough - but I may try hard-panning them to get that extra sparkle. Thanks for the feedback - it's nice to hear some from another set of pro ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Griff- Use your judgement on the snare/gtr issue! It's hard to tell on cheesy speakers, it just sounded like they were competing. Re the guitar texture thing: it didn't sound like you were using the same tone, but when one gtr is used throughout, the resonances of that specific gtr will give the assembled tracks a homogenous sound. Not wrong, but I try to be aware of it when tracking. Even switching up amp/cab/mic combos can fail to help at times. Back in my 2-inch Otari days in school, we would sometimes play with the varispeed and retune or transpose things for a slightly (or vastly) different texture. My Akai DPS16 won't let me record w/ varispeed, though. I guess in life there are tradeoffs to be made, no? Have you tried ProTools Free? I don't know if it's compatible w/ T-bird chipsets, but I'm thimking of trying to integrate PTFree with my Akai for more editing and tracking capacity when I'm home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 24, 2003 Author Share Posted June 24, 2003 I've worked with many incarnations of ProTools - and found them all to be hopelessly buggy, unless you're using the Digidesign hardware and a Mac. One day Digital Performer will hit the PC's, until then I'm quite satisfied with my Sonar setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Protools Free only runs on Win98/ME. It will only do a max of 8 tracks. Worse than that it is ProTools. They want you to invest in their hardware. There are plenty of other good DAW tools for the PC, you just need to pick your poison and how your workflow is. I would personally get Samplitude (without the dongle), Cubase SX (unfortunately must use a dongle), or Sonar. They are all good. Even Vegas 4, but I don't like the Acid interface on it. I can get it for $148, so I might be able to love the interface. Even Cool Edit Pro can work. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Damn, I wish I was a musician! That's a fine tune, and except for maybe adding a tad more gain in the vocals, this piece sounds real good playing through my ProMedias! Working in the warehouse at a Guitar Center, I can recognize much of your gear/software...it's a far cry from the simple MIDI sequences I used to type in by hand (no Fatar keyboard because I can't play very well; just an IBM keyboard typed one note per track at a time into an old Cakewalk 4.0 "DOS" sequencer, played through an equally old pre-General MIDI Roland Sound Canvas SC-50 GS synth modual). Haven't done that in years now...maybe I should invest in a Roland/Korg synth/workstation and a new Windows (or Mac preferably) version of Cakewalk, huh? Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel 2 reel Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 so ....when can I get with you guys and JAM??????......gc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 jt1stcav, Download the demo of Sonar form Cakewalk or the demo of Cubase SX from Steinberg. The new versions will blow you away. It ain't your daddys sequencer. Depending of the computer, you can more audio tracks than things you can play, and all the midi tracks you want. And a Mac isn't any better for it either. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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