Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Heard a friend's heresy's in 1983 and thought that ... 'someday I'll have some of those'. Well, I kinda went overboard. Plus I need some advice. I'm the music guy for a Unitarian Church, and until recently, the sound system consisted of a smallish onkyo amp and some 30 year old Technics SB-5000 speakers. Our group recently moved to a larger, much nicer building, and they also decided to pay me a little bit of $$, so I decided to put those dollars back into sonic improvements. I purchased a pair of 1980 Heresys at the beginning of June and then a pair of 1976 Cornwalls a tad later. I think I made the right decisions as I really REALLY like the sound and clarity of the setup now. I'm going to put up the pictures (smallest resolution files I could manage, took the pics tonight) and pray that you will overload me with your opinions. I use this system for personal enjoyment as well as to play keyboards through as well as vocal amplification. It is not a P.A. system, per se, as I never really have to (or want to) drive it very hard. In fact, I think I might be using too much power since these babies are so efficient. Anything you could tell me about the speakers would be appreciated as well. I've read enough posts from HDBR (I think that's his name) who worked at Klipsch during 1976 on to know that these Cornwalls have been changed a bit, but I would appreciate any observations. :-) I'll put comments by the pictures, and thanks for indulging me. Seems like there's quite a few music afficianados about these forums. I've seen references to some of my favorites (from the organist Virgil Fox to the Grateful Dead, Bill Evans to Alan Parsons)... so I kinda feel at home already. first, a bit about the room these are in.. it holds about 100 - 130 folks, very high ceilings. It has a wet acoustic that I do not want to change although I realize this is not the best for speakers to 'hang out' in. (tough, but I like the texture it provides to some of the choruses and vocal jazz ensembles I direct and take part in). I'll put a few pics up of the room too.. there are very few parallel surfaces, so virtually no 'slap back' echo, just a smooth 1.5 sec reverberation. soo..... follow the jpgs.. Forrest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Sitting in the back of the 'sanctuary' .. lecturn in center, Cornwalls to the left and right. I know I should have them further apart, but this is the most aesthetically pleasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Sitting in the back row, center of the church, and looking left, There you see a Heresy. .. I'll not post the backview right pic since it is really dark and is more or less just like this view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 The bottoms of the cornwalls. I've read where I should take off those metal 'nubs' and sit the speakers directly on the floor for better low end response. Good advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Right Cornwall with grill removed. I think this has been a modification (the removable grill) ..?? Is this correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 the insides of the left and right cornwalls are the same, pretty much. Should I rope caulk the squawker? rewire the innards? anything else?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Innards of the Heresy speakers.. should I rope caulk these? Leave em alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Is this the correct logo for the Heresys? Their Serial #'s are 102U689 and 102U690 (stamped into the wood... the paper on the back was gone) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 This is the sound system that is powering all 4 speakers. Harman Kardon PA2200 power amp Harman Kardon PT2300 pre amp Eurorack mixer (SM57 mikes and Roland Rd-600).. plus an occasional extra signal... never driven very hard. effects loop (sparingly used) is an Alesis Quadraverb I always run in stereo if possible, and if you are sitting at the very back of the room, from left to right the speakers are Heresy (right channel), Cornwall (left channel), Cornwall (right channel), Heresy (left channel). this way .. I think, most anywhere in the room there is a good stereo image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Thanks if you made it this far! The last owner had a cat, and they also did a horrible job staining these speakers. I really want to have them redone, preferable the beautiful reddish color of the heresys... Is this a do it yourself type job, or would you recommend a professional? I really care about the things I commit to buying, and I really feel these speakers will be with me for good. So I want to treat them right and restore them to visual beauty while bringing them up to their sonic potential. The difference in sound to the room is already astounding, as I can attain superb clarity at moderate to low volume levels without system strain, but I would like to tame some of the 'in your face' midrange aggressiveness when I'm listening to music at louder volume levels. Any advice, again, would and will be appreciated. I'm tickled to own these. oh.. the type is CDBR.. I guess that makes em Birch? Thanks again, Forrest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 cool corns in church, and your placement is fine, just play with the toeing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 As best I can remember your questions: Yep - Cornwall grille seems modified to no detriment though (although I could be wrong here since everything else looks fine). As to mods - both sets are wonderful speakers with no modifications. Listen longer and see if you can solve some of your issues through placement - that has been my successful tact over the years - a tone disk and SPL meter will help here and fairly cheap for something that should last a near lifetime. There will be plenty of folks that will offer mods if you can't help yourself . Take care on refinishing - this is veneer and the skin is thin. Patience is a real virtue - be sure you carefully layer any sanding process (with a veneer you may find a stain has penetrated through out). As to other hardware - someone else needs to help here. Lots of power is no issue if it is clean power - nothing says you have to turn it all the way up. Geesh - Klipsch in the santuary may get me back in Church for the first time in a good while...You passion is great to see. Fits this board well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good2BHome Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Could you supply the serial nimber(s) of the Cornwalls? Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Woodog, Funny you should post this because when I was a kid, although we are Jewish, my parents started going to a Unitarian Church. They had an amazing stereo system and was one of the major reasons I got into hifi. I always told my parents that I wanted a system that sounded as good as the one at church. My parents found the church to be a wonderful social outlet and I spent a lot of time as a member of the LRY group. Is that group still in existence and do you know what it stands for? As a conservative, I have to laugh thinking back on those days. Answer: Liberal Relgious Youth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 I can mail you some spec sheets for the CW and Heresy if you send me your postal address though the email system on this board. You can also see some information by going to the home page for this site, going to Classic Systems and Heritage. As you might know the CW and the Heresy are part what was long known as the Heritage series. (Now that appellation is applied to a wider range of discontinued speakers.) They were part of the mainline of speakers desiged by and built under the care of PWK. To some extent, these both started as center channel speakers to go between a pair of K-Horns. But they were very adaptable for normal use. Unlike the rest of the Heritage (K-Horn, LaSalla, and Belle), these both used direct radiator speaker in the bass. The H cabinet is sealed with a 12 inch K-22. The CW is vented with a 15 inch K-33. Generally speaking, vented boxes give about 3 dB more sensitivity than sealed, but sealed boxes can give a lot of bass performance for size. Bigger boxes give deeper bass. There are a lot of tradeoffs which can be juggled to trade off the size and design. But we see the effect with the CW and Heresys. It seems that Heresy was optimized for size and CW for bass. As you might know, the bass box effency is lower than a horn, so the mid and treble horns in each must be attenuated to match their bass boxes. The good news is that the tweeters on the two are the same. The drivers for the mid are the same. The mid horns are very similar. But you've observed that. The crossover networks are not identical. The major difference is that the autotransformer in each use different taps. This is because of the necessity to attenuate the mid and tweeter down to the sensitivity of the woofer box. People generally rave about the CW bass. The Heresy can be thin in comparison. Size is the major factor. Someone will give you the link to the Belgian Audio site with a critique of the CW. (They love them.) I'm not aware of any sophisticated review of the Heresy. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Here's the Cornwall test report link Gil mentioned: http://www.belgaudio.com/kcmap.htm Congrats on the purchase of two very fine vintage horn speakers, the Heresys and the Cornwalls. Both are excellent loudspeakers in their own right, and I'm sure they sound wonderful playing back Virgil Fox's performance of Bach's "Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor" or the Alan Parsons Project! My Cornwalls are unmodified, but I have nothing against doing so if you feel the need. Placement really does make a difference, so if you've got the room, by all means play around with their positions. I wish my Catholic Church had Klipsch... Oh well, keep the faith, and the music, alive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Yes, the serial numbers of the Cornwalls are 11P052 11P053 (don't know how I forgot that in all of that posting! hahahahaha) Forrest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 jt1stcav, My favorite of the Virgil Fox performances is of the Toccata, Adagio & Fugue in C.... recorded DDD when he was 69 years old, and suffering mightly from cancer. If you can't listen to that adagio and sigh, you might want to shop for a soul. I'll definitely play around with the placement as far as I can get away with it. They are a good group of singers, and the room size swallowed the Heresy's. I didn't necessarily want to be louder, just more *present* and clear. The Cornwalls have definitely helped that. Plus, the low 32.7 hz C note is real now, not just a ghost of what should be. The Toccata and Fugue from that same disc, Digital Fox, is sublime as well. My all time favorite disc for testing explosive transient responses is a recording of Rachmaninoff's piano concerto # 3, on the Phillips Label, Zoltan Kocsis, piano. It occurs around 9 min into the 2nd movement, a powerful attack with a huge piano chord and timpani and full orchestra... I took that disc to the church tonight to listen on the new digs ... and BAM! oh my! What an experience. **THOCK** right in the chest. Makes me hate my home system. heheheheh. ---------------- On 7/18/2003 8:10:29 PM jt1stcav wrote: Here's the Cornwall test report link Gil mentioned: http://www.belgaudio.com/kcmap.htm Congrats on the purchase of two very fine vintage horn speakers, the Heresys and the Cornwalls. Both are excellent loudspeakers in their own right, and I'm sure they sound wonderful playing back Virgil Fox's performance of Bach's "Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor" or the Alan Parsons Project! My Cornwalls are unmodified, but I have nothing against doing so if you feel the need. Placement really does make a difference, so if you've got the room, by all means play around with their positions. I wish my Catholic Church had Klipsch... Oh well, keep the faith, and the music, alive! ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted July 18, 2003 Author Share Posted July 18, 2003 Garymd, from the looks of the system you have, I think you made it. Unitarians are not opposed to laying up treasure here on earth, for what that's worth. I get to do a huge variety of music as a performer, for instance, I'll be playing (guitar) and singing Hunter/Garcia's 'Friend of the Devil' this Sunday for the prelude. Next Sunday I'll be playing a disc of Murray Perriah's performance of Schubert's Impromptu in F minor. As far as the LRY go, that is in some ways a blanket description of Unitarian Universalists. Jews and Unitarians have a long history going back to the holocaust. (of course, this is all TOTALLY non hifi talk, but interesting to me anyway). I'll quit now... thanks, Forrest ---------------- On 7/18/2003 6:08:53 PM garymd wrote: Woodog, Funny you should post this because when I was a kid, although we are Jewish, my parents started going to a Unitarian Church. They had an amazing stereo system and was one of the major reasons I got into hifi. I always told my parents that I wanted a system that sounded as good as the one at church. My parents found the church to be a wonderful social outlet and I spent a lot of time as a member of the LRY group. Is that group still in existence and do you know what it stands for? As a conservative, I have to laugh thinking back on those days. Answer: Liberal Relgious Youth ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 ---------------- On 7/18/2003 9:59:45 PM Woodog wrote: Garymd, from the looks of the system you have, I think you made it. Unitarians are not opposed to laying up treasure here on earth, for what that's worth. I get to do a huge variety of music as a performer, for instance, I'll be playing (guitar) and singing Hunter/Garcia's 'Friend of the Devil' this Sunday for the prelude. Next Sunday I'll be playing a disc of Murray Perriah's performance of Schubert's Impromptu in F minor. As far as the LRY go, that is in some ways a blanket description of Unitarian Universalists. Jews and Unitarians have a long history going back to the holocaust. (of course, this is all TOTALLY non hifi talk, but interesting to me anyway). I'll quit now... thanks, Forrest ---------------- On 7/18/2003 6:08:53 PM garymd wrote: Woodog, Funny you should post this because when I was a kid, although we are Jewish, my parents started going to a Unitarian Church. They had an amazing stereo system and was one of the major reasons I got into hifi. I always told my parents that I wanted a system that sounded as good as the one at church. My parents found the church to be a wonderful social outlet and I spent a lot of time as a member of the LRY group. Is that group still in existence and do you know what it stands for? As a conservative, I have to laugh thinking back on those days. Answer: Liberal Relgious Youth ---------------- Just as I was reading your post "Friend of the Devil" popped on the heresys. The version from Garcia/Grisman Grateful Dawg soundtrack. Maybe there are some khorns waiting for me in the next world. For now I'm content with my cornwalls and heresys. Sorry but I'll have to revert back to my Judaism when it comes to my Klipsch treasures. BTW - Do you remember the Unitarian singer/songwriter Ric Masten I think his name was. He came to our church a few times and I think I still have one of his albums around somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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