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klipsch k-1084-sb specs?


falko
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I want to modify my Klipsch RB-5 speakers to get some more deeper bass.10.gif

I thought about using a tqwt or horn enclosure.

perhaps: http://www.plasmatweeter.de/jericho.htm

or http://www.hornlautsprecher.de/DIndex/DHifi/DFostex/DBk201/dbk201.html

both horn enclosures are designed for Fostex FE208Sigma

Does anyone know if they would work with klipsch k-1084-sb ?

There can i find specs for the klipsch k-1084-sb woofer ?

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They only way you will get those specs is the measure them yourself -- or find someone (that doesn't work for Klipsch) who has already done that. Klipsch does not give out the T&S parameters on their drivers, and I cannot say I blame them. One exception to that rule might be if the driver is old and out of production (and thus they cannot supply you a spare part). Personally, I think you are wasting your time trying to modify the RB-5. If you want deeper bass built yourself a powered subwoofer! I can help you out with some suggestions if you would like.

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BTW, both those links show Transmission Line designs. I really wouldn't call them horn designs because the driver is directly radiating sound (in addition the the TL).

Trust me, you are better off letting the woofers in the RB-5s handle the upper bass and midrange and building a good subwoofer to get some true deep bass.

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Thanks for your response.

a subwoofer is another project, i wanted to build. Perhaps you know a good active crossover easy to build(without amplifier, i only use my own tube amps)?

I have allready a vintage 12 " alnico woofer from Saba and 4 8" Philips Ticonal 400 Ohm woofer - great for OTL tube amps.

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Hi USparc,

yes i read your mods for the rf3.

Sounds great, how did you figured out the specs of the parts for the crossover ?

Are your 2 woofers connected parallel or in series ?

Can you mail me your schematic? Perhaps i try to add another woofer.

A vintage Philips fullrange speaker in TQWT enclosure made much more deeper and more precise bass than the RB-5, but not so efficient mid bass. Perhaps you are right and the bracing can improve precision, i will try it.

greetings,

Falko

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falko,

You cannot just go and add another woofer. The RB-5 uses the K-1084 driver while the RF-3 uses a pair of K-1083 drivers (most likely in parallel). So to do it right you would need:

1) a new enclosure,

2) four new K-1083 drivers, and

3) new LP (and maybe HP) crossover sections.

Again, why bother with all of this? Just build a good quality subwoofer, and it will play deeper and cleaner than any modified RF-3 or RB-5 ever will.

I have an old Audio magainze that details a 4th order (24dB/octave) Linkwitz-Riley crossover. I could scan it in and email it to you. I haven't built it though, but active crossover design really isn't all that tricky or anything (and I have a BS in EE so I really do know about it).

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--- On 8/19/2003 2:45:10 PM USparc wrote:

Check out my posts in odds and mods. I did it with my RF-3's. No sub can be placed to that for music. Except some very $$$ subs.

I'm not quite understand what you are trying to say? I admit your mods might make the RF-3 sound better, but it won't even come close to being as good as a separate active subwoofer. And since this guy builds his own amps, all he needs to do is build a crossover ($25 in parts), build a good enclsoure ($25 in parts), and buy a good driver like a 12" ACI SV-12 ($110). So for a fairly modest invest, he can get much deeper and cleaner bass by using a true subwoofer.

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I also believe the best way to get more bass out of your RB's is by adding a subwoofer. Recreating bass requires moving quite a bit of air... and retuning your existing enclosure / drivers may increase their bass output, but will affect their mid-bass performance as well. Even if you had the T/S parameters for your existing woofer, designing and building a fully custom enclosure/driver/xover combo will require a lot of research and several tries. I see several choices:

1) Seeing that you already had planned on adding a subwoofer, I'd go that route first. When placing you sub, don't forget to consider room resonances... as they can make a tight sub sound boomy.

2) Another way of getting more bass from your Klipsch is trading up to a set of floor-standing models like the RF7... but this removes the fun associated with tweaking. There is also the floor-standing vs bookshelf imaging argument... but I think this may be a factor even if you tweak your existing units.

3) If you have the itch to experiment with a fullrange/horn... I would do so, as a separate DIY project. In this case you'd be best served by a driver designed for that purpose (the fostex is one of several popular ones) and you could always sell your RB if you like the DIY better.

I realise that half the fun of tweaking is getting there and not just the end result... that is why I think pursuing a DIY set of speakers/xovers may be quite satisfying.

Have fun...

Rob

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----------------

On 8/19/2003 4:41:18 PM falko wrote:

yes i read your mods for the rf3.

Sounds great, how did you figured out the specs of the parts for the crossover ?

Are your 2 woofers connected parallel or in series ?

Can you mail me your schematic? Perhaps i try to add another woofer.

A vintage Philips fullrange speaker in TQWT enclosure made much more deeper and more precise bass than the RB-5, but not so efficient mid bass. Perhaps you are right and the bracing can improve precision, i will try it.

----------------

The original value of each component is on the circuit board.

I didn't take exactly the same but stayed close. Moved the crossover point a little higher.

Yes, the woofers are in parallel.

The schematics are easy. For the LF it is a 2nd order

For the HF it is a 4th order.

Your RB-5 will certainly benefit from this just as my RF-3's

Maybe not as much in the bass but still.

It is just a major improvement. This is speaking of the overal sound quality. Not even to compare.

Don't change the woofer. The klipsch woofers are very good.

It's the crossover that holds them back.

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On 8/20/2003 12:30:56 PM STL wrote:

I'm not quite understand what you are trying to say? I admit your mods
might
make the RF-3 sound better, but it won't even come close to being as good as a separate active subwoofer. And since this guy builds his own amps, all he needs to do is build a crossover ($25 in parts), build a good enclsoure ($25 in parts), and buy a good driver like a 12" ACI SV-12 ($110). So for a fairly modest invest, he can get much deeper and cleaner bass by using a true subwoofer.

----------------

Man, it will be even better then most subs. It is hard to integrate a subwoofer. I find most subwoofer to slow and boomy. For HT it is ok, but for music it is totaly different.

A crossover update and internal bracing will improve the bass on any klipsch reference speaker. You would be surprised how much sound the original crossover eats up. This comes at a prise off course. The components alone will cost you $50/speaker. Then hours of work to get it done.

If then the bass is not what he wants, he can add a dedicated sub to each speaker. But then he is building a full-range speaker.

Besides music doesn't contain much lower frequencies then 40Hz.

My RF-3's go as low as 28Hz measured in my room.

However 30Hz is barely hearable, only feelable.

It is just an illusion that subs go lower. In most cases they will add some (a lot) db's in the 30-80Hz range to believe that they go lower or have "good" bass. I don't say that there are no good subs for music but they are at a price. Why the hasle if two floorstanders have the potential to reproduce the sound.

A subwoofer is for HT/sacd as a discrete channel not for music.(IMHO)

----------------

On 8/20/2003 1:01:23 PM formica wrote:

2) Another way of getting more bass from your Klipsch is trading up to a set of floor-standing models like the RF7... but this removes the fun associated with tweaking. There is also the floor-standing vs bookshelf imaging argument... but I think this may be a factor even if you tweak your existing units.

---------------

The RF7 can be tweaked also.

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--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote:

Man, it will be even better then most subs. It is hard to integrate a subwoofer. I find most subwoofer to slow and boomy. For HT it is ok, but for music it is totaly different.

I beg to differ! It is not hard to integrate a good subwoofer! I think you if listened to music with a true, well-designed subwoofer you would "see the light" and change your stance.

--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

A crossover update and internal bracing will improve the bass on any klipsch reference speaker. You would be surprised how much sound the original crossover eats up. This comes at a prise off course. The components alone will cost you $50/speaker. Then hours of work to get it done.

I don't argue that your mod would likely improve bass response, but mostly it would be tightening up the mid-bass and not adding the true low frequency impact that only a good subwoofer can supply.

--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

Besides music doesn't contain much lower frequencies then 40Hz.

That generalized statement is really not true. It does depends on what kind of music you listen to, but there is a lot of music out there that truly does go down to 20Hz.

--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

However 30Hz is barely hearable, only feelable.

Again that is not true. Maybe with your setup 30Hz is not audible, but with a good subwoofer most people can indeed hear 30Hz. In fact, many people can hear down to the 20Hz range -- it's down at 10Hz where things are truly no longer audible for humans.

--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

It is just an illusion that subs go lower. In most cases they will add some (a lot) db's in the 30-80Hz range to believe that they go lower or have "good" bass. I don't say that there are no good subs for music but they are at a price. Why the hasle if two floorstanders have the potential to reproduce the sound.

Not it is not an illusion -- it's a fact! It can easily be shown with scientific measurements that a good subwoofer will indeed extended the frequency response of a system -- even yours. You appear to be so caught up in your mod (which might very well be a very positive one) that you refuse to accept adding a true subwoofer might even be better. And yes subwoofers do have a price, but if you are a DIYer then you can build a VERY nice for a VERY reasonible price -- if you know what you're doing (or someone who does helps you out). Believe what you want, but a subwoofer (done right) will nicely complement any set of floorstanders and make them sound even more impressive for both movies and music!

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----------------

On 8/21/2003 10:10:07 AM STL wrote:

--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote:

Man, it will be even better then most subs. It is hard to integrate a subwoofer. I find most subwoofer to slow and boomy. For HT it is ok, but for music it is totaly different.

I beg to differ! It is not hard to integrate a
good
subwoofer! I think you if listened to music with a true, well-designed subwoofer you would "see the light" and change your stance.

you said it. A well designed subwoofer that matches your other speakers. But that aren't most subs.

--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

A crossover update and internal bracing will improve the bass on any klipsch reference speaker. You would be surprised how much sound the original crossover eats up. This comes at a prise off course. The components alone will cost you $50/speaker. Then hours of work to get it done.

I don't argue that your mod would likely improve bass response, but mostly it would be tightening up the mid-bass and not adding the true low frequency impact that only a good subwoofer can supply.

Aha, a good subwoofer.

--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

Besides music doesn't contain much lower frequencies then 40Hz.

That generalized statement is really not true. It does depends on what kind of music you listen to, but there is a lot of music out there that truly does go down to 20Hz.

--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

However 30Hz is barely hearable, only feelable.

Again that is not true. Maybe with your setup 30Hz is not audible, but with a good subwoofer most people can indeed hear 30Hz. In fact, many people can hear down to the 20Hz range -- it's down at 10Hz where things are truly no longer audible for humans.

Very few people can hear down to 20Hz. It is the same with the higher freq. Can you hear 20k. Don't think so.

I tested it. 28Hz tone spl measuring 80db. Start to hear something but more vibrations. 34 Hz is to my ears the lowest tone. No probs for my RF3-s.

--- On 8/20/2003 3:31:56 PM USparc wrote: ---

It is just an illusion that subs go lower. In most cases they will add some (a lot) db's in the 30-80Hz range to believe that they go lower or have "good" bass. I don't say that there are no good subs for music but they are at a price. Why the hasle if two floorstanders have the potential to reproduce the sound.

Not it is not an illusion -- it's a fact! It can easily be shown with scientific measurements that a good subwoofer will indeed extended the frequency response of a system -- even yours. You appear to be so caught up in your mod (which might very well be a very positive one) that you refuse to accept adding a true subwoofer might even be better. And yes subwoofers do have a price, but if you are a DIYer then you can build a VERY nice for a VERY reasonible price -- if you know what you're doing (or someone who does helps you out). Believe what you want, but a subwoofer (done right) will nicely complement any set of floorstanders and make them sound even more impressive for both movies and music!

You are repeating yourself. A GOOD subwoofer!!!

Then there is something like a subwoofer for music and a subwoofer for HT. Some have already a switch for this.

For music the sub needs to be fast and controlled to extend the speaker (then it is in fact no subwoofer anymore). For HT it has to move a lot of air to get the feeling of the impact. My KSW-12 does a nice job at this. For music no way.

So a subwoofer from an HT point of view is a vibrating machine to let you FEEL the impact. Using a HT sub for music is very annoying and distracting. The bass is not controlled. But if you like boomy bass..., then turn the level some more.

For music it has to be tight and controlled not vibrating your *** off.

And yes I am caught up in my mods, even you would if you heard the difference. I am very satisfied with the RF-3's now.

Adding a sub for just 20-28Hz range that gives just more vibrations and just occures in a few records. How can this justify the price and the hasle with subwoofers (for music)??

----------------

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USparc,

I do agree that most subwoofers on the market are setup for HT and that most all are overly boomy. On the other hand, I do NOT agree that one subwoofer cannot be good for both HT and music. I have just one 12" subwoofer (custom designed and built by me) that handles both duties equally well without and compromise. It moves lots of air (when called upon) but is also has very tight response. I do admit I have it set at slightly different levels for HT and music -- but again I am using the same subwoofer for both without any compromise. You question why anyone would use a subwoofer for music, but that is only because you haven't heard a good subwoofer yet. I bet a lot of people think their RF-3s are just fine out of the box, but I'm sure you think your mods make the better (and they probably do). But by the same taken you might think your modified RF-3s are plenty good -- but maybe you just don't know what you are missing! ;)

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Acoustic Suspension might be the way to with Reference. I've tried subs several times, and it just hasn't sounded "right". Maybe something tighter and punchier to go along with those light ceramic cones?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=15255440&St=8636&St2=-59994444&St3=90242393&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=14733&DID=7

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