THD% 192hz/24-but DAC ???

[Somperson]

I'm not completely new to the HT world, but as a young kid and an infrequent poster I still have much to learn.

After looking online I finally decided that I was going to get a Denon 1601 or Harman Kardon avr-110. Its a tough choice but I thought I was going for the HK until I looked deeper into the specs and I didn't exactly know what the THD meant although I know lower is better... And then I saw that the HK had 192/24 bit DAC and many others only had 96/24 bit DAC, now is there a major difference at all with these or is it unnoticable on my Quintets (Damn things are incredible for value and size).

And also I wanted to get max performance from a sub I want to get. Either KSW-10/12", Paradigm 10", Polk 10", or Velodyne 10/12" from what I've read these are all qualified but I want these suckers to pick up where the Quints leave for music and to have the full sound range. I want to do 5ch stereo but does that play the sub or does 2ch play the sub, or do I have to go thru 5.1 reproduction on the HK, or just Dolby Pro II?? Confusing

Well thanks for any help I can get And for KLIP's to live ON...

JPK

[maxg]

Now then - lets see. Sounds like the HK unit is built with DVDa in mind and that the Denon isn't but that doesnt mean that the Denon wont support DVDa. THe HK is probably newer ad I doubt it will be the desciding factor for your current setup. BTW - I had Quintets for a few years with the KSW 10 and loved it.

THD means Total Harmonic Distortion and yes less is better.

For your sub I would recommend the KSW 12. The 10 will suffice for your current setup but as and when you move on it is unlikely to be sufficient (I sold mine).

THe sub will play with stereo sound - if you set it on the amp. My old Yamaha had the option of bass sub only, both and main only. With the KSW 12 you will definitely hear a huge difference!!

You can play with the crossover point on the sub too. I would start around 80Mz and go from there - up and down till you like what you hear.

[decibel man]

JPK, I have the AVR7000 which has the 96kHz DAC. I love it. This is my second HK receiver. The first one is used in my garage / workshop and is 14 to 16 years old. I also have a Denon AVR2500 in my spare room. The Denon is also a great receiver. I like the high current capability of the HK, and the Logic7 surround modes. Logic7 was developed by Harmon's Lexicon division and is great for just watching TV or casual music listening. I don't think you can make a bad choice between the two receivers you are looking at.

Good luck and enjoy!

JT

[Somperson]

Well guys I'm glad I am making the right choices here, but just to make sure Does 5ch stereo play the sub and all the speakers because Denon nor HK lists them from what I could read. I want to make sure because i think we will be playing a good amount of music and I need that sub for pick up for the Quintets. So basically the 192/24 bit would be worthless unless heading towards DVDa or SACD. Then would any reciever weigh out the other because the 192/24 bit wouldn't matter...?

JPK

[boa12]

som, in a nutshell, yes.

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Klipsch KLF 30 (front), KLF C-7, Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Monsterbass 400 sub interconnects & Monster CX-2 biwire & Z-12 cable

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Sony DVP-C650D cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Technics dual cassette deck

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3 (front), RC-3, cheap little Technics (rear)

Monster MCX Biwires

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975)

Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics direct drive turntable

Sega Genesis game player

Sub: None yet

rock on!

[decibel man]

Som, I don't know that it would be true to say that the 192/24 DAC is worthless as compared to a 96/24 DAC if you aren't using it for DVD-A or SACD. It may be a case were the information is getting upsampled at a faster rate. For instance, the 5 channel stereo mode on the HK is called Logic7 Music (or at least it is with the rest of the line, 310, 510 and 7000 models). The reciever either takes the music from the sorce in analog or digital format(coax or optical), then if it is in analog form it coverts it to digital to then process it for multichannel playback. Then it converts the seperate digital channels to analog and sends it to the amplifier portion of the receiver. This is where a faster DAC will do a better job of processing the information. If you use a CD player with a digital output, the 192/24 DAC will be a nice compliment. Also I think the HK110 has HDCD like the rest of the line, but I am not sure.

Just my two cents. I hope this wasn't too confusing. Another option if price is a concern is the Yamaha HTR5250. The 5250 is being replaced by the 5450 at a lower price point. The 5250 MSRP is around $599 and the 5450 is $399 to $499. www.jandr.com has the 5250 for a mere $299 right now while supplies last. I have a friend who is starting out with his first home theater and I recomended he start with the 5250 because of the price. It is a pretty respectable receiver. He ordered his last week on Monday and received it on Wednesday without a scratch. They do a good job on packaging components for shipping. I have spent a few thousand dollars with them over the years and have been quite pleased with customer service. My suggestion would be to call them and not to just order from the website. Any of these three are a good choice.

Good luck and happy listening!

JT

[decibel man]

And I almost forgot about the subwoofer question. As part of the processing in the receiver there is a subwoofer channel created in the HK, but I am not sure about the Denon. I would have to think that it would have a sub channel in surround stereo though.

Again good luck and feel free to ask any questions, these Klipsch fanatics have a wealth of knowledge and they love to share it.

JT

[Somperson]

Well Decibel Man, I thank you for your help and for your information I already bought The H/K AVR 110 out of a high recommendation by friend and also Audioreview.com which I encourage anyone to check it out. I'm unsure because I can't remember if the H/K has a separate 5ch DSP or if it was only Logic7 music. They have 2 setting Logic 7 Music and cinemia. I need a sub now. Still undecided but KSW-12 looks nice enough but I want to look deeper into it. I don't think it has HDCD decoding but I don't think it will take off..Thats it...

Thanks again

JPK

[The Dome]

I own a Denon reciever and absouletly love it, it is the avr-1700 which is a couple years old, still has dolby digital though. I know that the Denon will play through the sub line out on 5 channel stereo (a mode that i enjoy for music). As far as the DAC go, SACD and DVD-Audio are the only things that run at those high a rates. DVD-Audio, and soon SACD, use the 6 channel inputs which are never put into a digital domain once in the reciever. So it doesn't even use the DAC for those. The only thing right now that can utilize a digital in is your usual CD, MD, etc. and DVD which runs at 96kHz. The analog inputs all have to run through analog to digital converters before the can be processed and go through the DACs. The ADCs in both recievers are probably 16 bit/44.1kHz. So anything using analog is not going to be able to benefit fromt he 192 DACs. Either way your going to get a good product, my biased opinion is the Denon. Look at the amount of inputs and other features, like usability. Try both out and check and see which sound you like better. That is the real test. Good luck.

[jdm56]

Seems there have been a few audiophile music releases on "regular" DVD (video) using 192/24 encoding. The DVD video standard allows for two channels so encoded. I doubt this is really much of an issue though, as this format is really just an interim audiophile thang, until DVD-A or SACD gets rolling.

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JDMcCall