greg928gts Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 I just got off the phone with a guy who has a pair of PSB Stratus Gold speakers for sale. These are the older models in oak, not the new Gold i. He asked what I was using for speakers and then proceeded to tell me that the PSB's would blow away Khorns. He used to own Khorns years ago in college and Klipsch speakers are good, but not in the same league as PSB. The PSB's are for real audiophiles, people who listen to music. Klipsch are stereo speakers, while the PSB's are audiophile speakers. I got a good laugh from this and thought you all might too. Funny how I'm able to pick up his PSB's so cheap though, $600. I'll make a good profit on them on ebay selling them to a real audiophile. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted September 27, 2003 Share Posted September 27, 2003 Smart move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 27, 2003 Author Share Posted September 27, 2003 I just read a review on the PSB's and they are calling them a 10,000 watt speaker. What a laugh. I remember a quote from PWK, "bragging about how much power your speaker can handle, is like bragging about how much fuel your car can use". Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 I just got these beasts home. They are a nice looking speaker, beautiful heavy cabinets in Oak. They are near mint. Got em for $600. I haven't listened to them yet, but I bet they sound pretty good for an audiophile speaker. When I got there to look at them, I took the grilles off and found 4 - 3/4" diameter round, gold colored, plastic or metal discs stuck to the wood front baffle of the speaker. They were placed, one each, at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00 all around the bass drivers. The seller told me that these made a noticeable difference in the performance of the speakers due to the change in resonant frequency or something like that. It increased bass definition. I'm thinking of getting some of these round gold plastic/metal stickers for my Khorns, does anyone know where I can purchase them? I'm thinking that I could save some money by using pennies instead. Would sticking pennies to the front of the khorns help with bass definition? If so, what pattern should I stick them on in? Which side of the penny should be sticking out, heads or tails? Someone please help me. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Greg, good stuff. How about posting a few pix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I don't know where to locate them, except that I have seen some other audiophile accessories. Among my favorites are little "pier" type structures to get your speaker cables up off the floor. This is a high dollar add on. However, the poor man's cable pier could be accomplished just as well by laying your cable on top of inverted styrofoam cups placed about every 8 to 10 inches along the wall.... then tape your cable to the cup bottoms, keeping them refreshingly off the floor where they pick up some kind of g0dawful interference or some such trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 You could try the little bits of holographic film on your speakers, or aluminum foil if you can't find the holo stuff. Then try putting a nickel on the top of your power cord where it plugs into the wall. These simple tweaks make or break an audiophile system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 Great suggestions Randy and DaddyDee, now I'm getting some REAL advice from this forum. Picture attached. I wonder how much these little discs cost him? I really almost lost it when he told me how much they improved the sound. But I kept it together. I was laughing inside though! I've been fixing the bi-wiring connectors on the bottom, so I haven't had a chance to plug them in and listen to them yet. I'll get a better picture later in the daylight. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 I finally hooked them up and listened to them. They are on my best CD setup, the McIntosh preamp, and a McIntosh 2205. They actually sound very nice. They are extremely innefficient, gobbling up all 200 wpc of the Mac with ease and they don't seem as loud as my Khorns and SET. After playing with the positioning a little I was able to get a wonderful soundstage and nice imaging. Very easy to listen to. I'm not getting the live sound from them like with the Khorns. They don't have the same dynamic range and they aren't involving like the Khorns are. When pushed, they start to muddy up and get a little thinner sounding in the bass. When I back off a little, the bass gets a little fatter sounding and more natural. They remind me of Cambridge Soundworks tower speakers with the powered subwoofer built in. Overall, very nice speaker. Great build quality, nice looking, created a nicely imaged soundstage and clear full range sound. And . . . they sound better than Cambridge Soundworks tower speakers! Now there's something to strive for. Maybe if I get some more of those stick-on discs . . . . . yeah, that's it, I need more little metal wafers stuck to the front baffle. I'm glad I only paid $600 for them, any guesses as to how much they'll go for on Audiogon or ebay? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James RD Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I've been told that banana stickers from Dole or Chiquita evenly spaced around the woofer will tighten up the bass. Something about the glue on the sticker helps to dampen resonances. Because of the bright blue and yellow colors the Chiquita are preferred to help deflect brightness of tone. I don't know. Sounds reasonable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Hello: Like many tweaks and additions, the main sound is that of your money going into the cash register. There is one brand of speaker cable, used by many though not those on the Forum, that sells for $5.00 per foot. the wholesale cost to dealers started at $.75 per foot, then dropped to $.55 per foot. Not a bad profit margin, considering the dealer can call the factory and order with no middle man. As P. T. Barnum said there's a sucker born every minute. OR there is something that I am not hearing besides the profit. dodger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 It's tough to maintain when hit in the face with the voodoo. I've got my RF-7's completely wrapped in duct tape. It was the only way I could get rid of the resonances. Sounds good, and looks really neato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Dont write off all tweaks as snake oil so quickly. Some things really do work and have a positive result. The trick is being able to ascertain which does what. I always keep a totally open mind regarding tweaks and if given a chance to audition or compare, almost always accept the chance, especially if free or inexpensive. Many tweaks make little difference to one that has a system that has many bottlenecks; on the other hand, once you get a system setup so that subtle differences can be revealed, these so-called minor tweaks can bring it up a notch. Admittedly, more than a few bring dubious results but I have used quite a few more to benefit my systems. Those dots you speak of supposedly are there to reduce resonance areas in your cabinet and are tough to place. Do they work? Many think that versions of this idea do work in taming/tuning cabinet resonances. There are so many system setup tweaks that add to the performance, it would take too long to list here. This place is notorious for writing off much of this as voodoo or snake oil; that's fine by me. On the other hand, I have benefited from more than a few tweak finds over the years. To each his own. On the speaker cable front, this will always have detractors. MUCH MONEY can be spent with much wasted. What I HAVE found is that cable can really make a difference but that price does not indicate quality or performance. I have tested and auditioned cable that DID cost quite a bit that also sounded VERY GOOD. Worth the money? You make the call. I tend to count cable as just another component in the chain. I have seen the wrong cable bring a system to its knees and others lift the presentation up a notch. For those that hear no difference, consider yourself lucky to save a few ducats and be happy with whatever you have. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 PSB cone loudspeakers belong to the audiophile camp that believes that merely bigger amplifier power is better. As if all American cars are better than small Japanese ones simply because they have larger engines. Many of these audiophile loudspeakers are searching for mid-range tonal definition as their solution to audio nirvana, while ignoring many of the other aspects of sound that creates the illusion of live. These other aspects are the things that big ole Klipsch horns get so right: crisp, clean, clear, tall, wide, excellent separation, easy imaging, super-sensitivity and, most importantly, DYNAMIC. Sure, the big ole horns are loaded with sonic anomalies, but so is any live performance. Just as modern solid-state specs do little to describe the wonderful qualities of tube equipment, todays cone driver specs do little to adequately describe the features of big ole horns. Many tweaks dont make a significant difference to systems with many bottlenecks. Yet, once a system reveals subtle differences, these minor tweaks DO bring the sound up a notch. Perhaps the changes are only different differences, but they are pleasing nonetheless. Foam or felt around the cone drivers is a common tweak. It softens diffraction off the main baffle. It is particularly noticeable with tweeters. The wide dispersion pattern and directed angles of big ole horns do NOT seem to need this type of treatment. At least, I have never seen it used. Isolating or insulating the 60Hz cycle of power cables does make a slight difference. I wrapped my power cables when every little tweak improved the harshness of my Cornwall Is, with their B2 crossover, and noticed a slight difference. One of the features of better speaker cables is their superior terminal connections (which the god of super-power amplifiers Nelson Pass thinks is very important) and their improved insulation from external frequency interferences. Lifting the cable off the floor with Styrofoam may work, NOT because the cable is off the floor, but because it is dampened with Styrofoam. By the way, this practice almost requires that the cable run in straight lines another tweak which is said to improve the sound by reducing frequency interference. It also means that the cables dont run right next to each other which is also said to reduce frequency interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 29, 2003 Author Share Posted September 29, 2003 My wires are so tangled and crossed over in mish mash fashion behind my rack that instead of getting cross interference and noise problems, I'm actually getting the exact opposite, where all frequency anomolies, interference, and hum are interactively cancelled out and the result a smoothing of the sound like I've never heard before. I'm not touching a thing back there! I think the exact term for this is cableinterturbulation. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Some tweaks are a good addition. RF chokes, thicker gauge speaker wire, isulators for equipment, Surge protectors with emi/rfi filtering are among some of the many. It depends on system needs or proven points. The $5.00 per foot cable is one instance where at $.55 per foot wholesale, including shipping is one instance of gouging the consumer. As one involved to the extent and for the time as I have, I can see a profit margin, but to the extent where the manufacturer is comfortable that R & D costs and other overhead have been met and the wholesale price drops with no resulting lowering to the Consumer, I feel is ludicrous. Years ago I refinished Guitars. If the list price was ten (10) dollars for a part, the wholesale price was Five (5) dollars plus shipping. That was excessive to many back then. Now the mark-up can be 300 % and people don't bat an eye if they get 15 % off. I have no trouble with tweaks that work - remember when DeOxit was considered a tweak? - nor do I have troble with recouping R & D costs, brochure printing costs, ad campaign costs, but when the PROFIT becomes so excessive that it puts decent equipment out of the hands of the blue collar worker, I believe it is robbery. The point of used equipment is raised. There CAN be some problems: problems not stated, condition improperly stated, no warranty, a number of times, no manual, extra costs of owner and service manual if available, many more but also the joy of opening a brand new, waranteed piece of equipment Good audio IS meant to be enjoyed by all. Those manufacturers that gouge give ALL of us a bad name. I am a Capatalist, but keep profits within reason. As for tweaks, whatever improves your system, that's a plus. It's too bad the original maufacturer did not think to include it. Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Mobile and Colin, "I've been told that banana stickers from Dole or Chiquita evenly spaced around the woofer will tighten up the bass." If this rumor is true then I am gluing Dole stickers on my Esotec tweeters on my Dynaudios and Chiquita stickers on the RF7's dustcaps.This should bring the soundstage more up front,push the musicians 1Km back and remove all colorations from the microphones! Any ideas Mobile and Colin? I heard you both liked the Dole sticker better and found the Chiquita to have more salsa. Greg, About the PSB Stratus Gold,yes these are good speakers when you have a Bryston 4B and up power class amp.Like the Dynaudio Contour 3.3's the PSB's need power and lots of clean power to sound good.If not,what you heard will happen,the sound quality deteriorates fast,the amp being pushed to hard. But the Dynaudio Contour 3.3's are a clear cut above anything PSB makes(the newer PSB Gold is a audibly improved speaker over the Gold you purchased).The bass has a little more definition and midrange is cleaner at very high SPL.Besides its a close call. As with the larger PSB's my Dynaudio need a MONSTER SS POWER amp to really shine,those who would use even a high quality SS amp that cannot provide at least half a kilowatt of clean power will find them lacking a bit of life. With Klipsch all you need is a godo few watts and voila PWK's magic works.I can enjoy the so called audiophile speakers but find myself listening to my Klipsch most of the time! And I did not use the Dole stickers on my toroid transformers yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_highlander Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 "This should bring the soundstage more up front,push the musicians 1Km back and remove all colorations from the microphones!" wow! ...do you think this will work on my Ivys, Ear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 Highlander, Yes it will even push the musicians further,so far in fact they will fall off the stage! Now this is what I call a true real deal Dole/Chiquita mod. I would rank the Dold/Chiquita mod at the same level as the fudg/podge/dodge mod! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Earz, some day we will get to view a picture of your gear/system. Until then, I think that Montreal is a GREAT city and one where DREAMS CAN COME TRUE but are often figments of robust French-Quebec imagination. Please dont eat too many bananas, Earz. Dold(sic) would be forlorn. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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