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what are the best year model(s) cornwalls?


avman

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23 hours ago, DizRotus said:

PWK hated MDF and insisted on Baltic birch plywood (BBP) in his speakers.  He told me this personally as he compared the BBP construction of the Khorn to the MDF construction of the Speakerlab knockoff.  It’s interesting that Speakerlab switched to multi-plywood in the later years of production.

 

 

Well....  It appears SpeakerLab has switched back.  Here they comment on their "locally sourced, formaldehyde-free MDF" in their Behind The Scenes Video.  Which implies that PWK might have a different opinion on MDF today as well.  ..I believe it is even used in the new Klipschorn.

 

http://slspeakers.com/galleries.html#speakers

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

Well....  It appears SpeakerLab has switched back.  Here they comment on their "locally sourced, formaldehyde-free MDF" in their Behind The Scenes Video.  Which implies that PWK might have a different opinion on MDF today as well.  ..I believe it is even used in the new Klipschorn.

 

http://slspeakers.com/galleries.html#speakers

You inspire me to create some documented experiments so look for some screen captures here soon. Being as that I am a hands on guy I know just what to do and how to do it. Down side is that there is not one piece of MDF here but for you I can spend the big bucks and get one. These will be engineer approved experiments but not MBA approved. What type of MDF do you want me to use? I want to get the very best grade and I know you can tell me what that is. I will have Baltic Birch for my side of things and will get whatever MDF you wish for your side of things.

 

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1 hour ago, Dave A said:

You inspire me to create some documented experiments so look for some screen captures here soon. Being as that I am a hands on guy I know just what to do and how to do it. Down side is that there is not one piece of MDF here but for you I can spend the big bucks and get one. These will be engineer approved experiments but not MBA approved. What type of MDF do you want me to use? I want to get the very best grade and I know you can tell me what that is. I will have Baltic Birch for my side of things and will get whatever MDF you wish for your side of things.

 

Dave, don't wast the time or the BB for that matter.  I'm a builder for 30+ years and use BB for all of my personal builds (subs/bass bins) but also for any kitchen cabinets, vanities, shelf units etc...  That's my personal preference.  I've used MDF for laminate counters for years but if I was making any for myself, I would absolutely use BB, but it's not worth arguing about.  BB people are going to remain BB people and there will still be people that use MDF because it's cheaper, who cares.  LOL :D  

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21 minutes ago, Pete H said:

Dave, don't wast the time or the BB for that matter.  I'm a builder for 30+ years and use BB for all of my personal builds (subs/bass bins) but also for any kitchen cabinets, vanities, shelf units etc...  That's my personal preference.  I've used MDF for laminate counters for years but if I was making any for myself, I would absolutely use BB, but it's not worth arguing about.  BB people are going to remain BB people and there will still be people that use MDF because it's cheaper, who cares.  LOL :D  

Oh this will be fun and things that are amusing to me are not a waste of time. First up the water test with a piece of each in a pan of water and update pics each day. Then we have the Tannerite stress test where we see how things handle sudden shocks. I am thinking of 9mm, 45acp, 223, 308 and 12g tests. I wonder if I should do a forklift load test? See creative minds have no trouble entertaining themselves. Any ideas to contribute? Might make these into videos and post them on Youtube. Maybe a hydraulic press test? I have seen those on Youtube. I can see sweaty drink tests and flower plant tests I mean the imagination can just run wild here.

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1 hour ago, Pete H said:

Dave, don't wast the time or the BB for that matter.  I'm a builder for 30+ years and use BB for all of my personal builds (subs/bass bins) but also for any kitchen cabinets, vanities, shelf units etc...  That's my personal preference.  I've used MDF for laminate counters for years but if I was making any for myself, I would absolutely use BB, but it's not worth arguing about.  BB people are going to remain BB people and there will still be people that use MDF because it's cheaper, who cares.  LOL :D  

I have been in manufacturing for a loooong time, and when I watch the video of the new cornwalls being built, I am impressed. That is a fantastic way to manufacture and present a beautiful product. The MDF is more than sufficient for this purpose. To argue that it is as strong as the plywood is laughable, and like Pete, if I was building for myself, it would be ply. But every design is a compromise. The Heresey was one such compromise that arguably kept Klipsch in business. Manufacturing costs using this product and process has to be much less and that money can be put into the other components and that looks like what they did with the IV! (not lining pockets) I hope they stay competitive and keep building these fine speakers in the USA. There are many factors that we domestic manufacturers need to keep in mind and staying viable is the main one. I have 75 people working for me as a domestic manufacturer and it thrills me every time I see the plant humming. (AND every one of them is part owner in the company)  I was in shoe manufacturing from the late 70's to the early 90's and watched it wither and die in this country (many jobs in Arkansas lost).

Dave, in 20 years, you can pick up a handful of busted C IV's (broken cabinets only) and build new ply cabinets for them. It will keep this hobby going. 

 

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3 minutes ago, MookieStl said:

I have been in manufacturing for a loooong time, and when I watch the video of the new cornwalls being built, I am impressed. That is a fantastic way to manufacture and present a beautiful product. The MDF is more than sufficient for this purpose. To argue that it is as strong as the plywood is laughable, and like Pete, if I was building for myself, it would be ply. But every design is a compromise. The Heresey was one such compromise that arguably kept Klipsch in business. Manufacturing costs using this product and process has to be much less and that money can be put into the other components and that looks like what they did with the IV! (not lining pockets) I hope they stay competitive and keep building these fine speakers in the USA. There are many factors that we domestic manufacturers need to keep in mind ans staying viable is the main one. I have 75 people working for me as a domestic manufacturer and it thrills me every time I see the plant humming. (AND every one of them is part owner in the company)  I was in shoe manufacturing from the late 70's to the early 90's and watched it wither and die in this country (many jobs in Arkansas lost).

Dave, in 20 years, you can pick up a handful of busted C IV's (cabinets only) and build new ply cabinets for them. It will keep this hobby going. 

 

Hah in 20 years I probably won't care. I don't deny MDF has it's place just not for me. I like to poke OD over MDF because he presents it as superior material which provides me many chuckles. So any tests you would like me to run?

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15 minutes ago, Dave A said:

Hah in 20 years I probably won't care. I don't deny MDF has it's place just not for me. I like to poke OD over MDF because he presents it as superior material which provides me many chuckles. So any tests you would like me to run?

I just got a new knee with a 30 year warranty! I asked what the next step down would be, they didn't recommend it.

I doubt you will discover anything you didn't already know with your testing, but it is a good to have a scientific approach. 

 

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2 hours ago, Dave A said:

You inspire me to create some documented experiments so look for some screen captures here soon. Being as that I am a hands on guy I know just what to do and how to do it. Down side is that there is not one piece of MDF here but for you I can spend the big bucks and get one. These will be engineer approved experiments but not MBA approved. What type of MDF do you want me to use? I want to get the very best grade and I know you can tell me what that is. I will have Baltic Birch for my side of things and will get whatever MDF you wish for your side of things.

 


Dave,

 

Don’t you feel it’s bad form to endlessly trash MDF when nearly ALL of Klipsch‘s current speakers are made entirely or in part with this material? I mean, if you feel their present day speakers are such junk, then why spend so much time here?

 

...just sayin’

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40 minutes ago, MookieStl said:

I just got a new knee with a 30 year warranty! I asked what the next step down would be, they didn't recommend it.

I doubt you will discover anything you didn't already know with your testing, but it is a good to have a scientific approach. 

 

OK, I have to ask, what knee came with that kind of warranty?  I ask, because I'm in the process of making decisions for the first one that is getting done.

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7 minutes ago, Pete H said:

OK, I have to ask, what knee came with that kind of warranty?  I ask, because I'm in the process of making decisions for the first one that is getting done.

I will send you the info via PM when i get home tonight. Currently back to being a working stiff.

Maybe i can get you a good deal on my old knee. Not sure what they did with it.

It is amazing what they can do. It is a fair amount of pain but you rebound very quick. I was back at work in two weeks. They have me tied to my desk currently but I have just about chewed through the ropes. Should be easing back into more and more each week.

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59 minutes ago, Pete H said:

OK, I have to ask, what knee came with that kind of warranty?  I ask, because I'm in the process of making decisions for the first one that is getting done.

I'll play this game, too!😁

 

I need new knees, too...and hip replacements...and a complete spinal-column rebuild/replacement (Vertebrae and discs!), if and when that will ever be possible!...old paratrooper syndrome, ya'know!  Not only THAT, but I still need the other shoulder surgery...but first things first...ANOTHER hemorrhoidectomy!!  LUCKY ME, huh??... I almost bled out a few months ago!!..SERIOUSLY...VERY NEAR to death! The worst part about THAT situation is that I never even KNEW I had them again!  I was actually worried about colon cancer until they did the colonoscopy and told me everything was fine, except for my massive hemorrhoid issue!  Ain't that a buncha chit??

 

I gotta get my body ABLE to AT LEAST do SOME of the stuff when my retirement home starts going up in about a year or so!  

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2 hours ago, Dave A said:

Oh this will be fun and things that are amusing to me are not a waste of time. First up the water test with a piece of each in a pan of water and update pics each day. Then we have the Tannerite stress test where we see how things handle sudden shocks. I am thinking of 9mm, 45acp, 223, 308 and 12g tests. I wonder if I should do a forklift load test? See creative minds have no trouble entertaining themselves. Any ideas to contribute? Might make these into videos and post them on Youtube. Maybe a hydraulic press test? I have seen those on Youtube. I can see sweaty drink tests and flower plant tests I mean the imagination can just run wild here.

Load test for structural integrity is a good one! 

 

It may take years, but the gas-out test is also a good one...I've seen many instances of veneer bubbles forming between the veneers used and the substrate to which they were glued when MDF is used!  This primariiy happens due to gas-out from the substrates forming those bubbles, too!  If the gas-out from the substrate cannot escape or builds-up too quickly, to let itself escape through the veneers, it makes bubbles under the veneer!  Years ago, before I had Klipsch speakers this occurred to my JBL L-36's in just a few months!  The substrate was LDF, though, but the same thing happens with MDF!...especially when the veneer has been  lacquered!  Lots of gas-out from fiberboard because it is just glue mixed with sawdust!  The gasses are coming from the glue in the substrate!!  Plywood has much slower gas-out to it from its glues!  Fast gas-out is the REAL issue here!  And MDF has fast gas-out!.... and a much higher amount of chemicals in it to create that gas!  It has to escape, one way or another!  

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Wow quite the thread! I randomly came across this as I'm in "research mode" for my first set of large speakers and have narrowed my focus down to building some Cornscala's. For the price/performance ratio assuming you are comfortable with DIY it seems like this would be hard to beat. As much as I'd like to throw down for the Cornwall 4's i'm not there just yet. I've seen reasonable deals on Cornwall II's (around $1k) but they are all in the midwest or east coast, here in Oregon folks want $2k for the same thing and they almost never come up for sale.

 

In any case my plan is to use plywood to build the Cornscala's, most likely I'll order the kit from Crites that includes the motorboard, crossover and speakers.  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Zack R said:

n any case my plan is to use plywood to build the Cornscala's, most likely I'll order the kit from Crites that includes the motorboard, crossover and speakers.  

Good choice and source the baltic birch plywood locally, you wont be disappointed at all

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Take away the economics and convenience and I’ll use BB in my DIY builds every time.  The TH subs and scratch-built “Supers” in the first attached photo are BB all the way.  The single drivers are made from Parts Express MDF flat packs.  The convenience and price made sense.  Sonic superiority was not a reason to pick MDF over void-free Baltic Birch plywood.

 

A4751B20-D2E1-4EA5-AAA8-3C892909EE70.thumb.jpeg.56e3ca4ad7a70a2cec193dda6fc8c989.jpeg

 

Convenience and cost cost gave the nod to the PE MKBoom CNC cut MDF flat pack below.  Each material has its place, but, IMO, the choice comes down to dollars and cents, not sonic superiority.  Given the time and the budget I will ALWAYS choose BB over MDF for important projects.  I will not invest my time and money scratch building with MDF.

 

That said,  If I were in the market for new factory-built speakers, I would not avoid new Klipsch products because of MDF.

 

As an aside, I believe the internal construction of a new Khorn bass bin is, and always has been, BB.  If I’m incorrect, I welcome enlightenment.

 

1316411199_IMG_0892(Medium).thumb.JPG.b086e10229de79af11e062e25102428e.JPGDAA77B1E-A173-4FE9-943B-6518350BADBB.thumb.jpeg.7af565e32123d3403e80133a3278fbff.jpeg

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21 hours ago, MookieStl said:

I just got a new knee with a 30 year warranty! I asked what the next step down would be, they didn't recommend it.

I doubt you will discover anything you didn't already know with your testing, but it is a good to have a scientific approach. 

 

 

* quite the shift in topics - mdf vs. bb to knee replacements. My guess is a thirty year knee is manufactured from titanium impregnated MDF. My artificial hips are a Klipsch approved variant of void free Baltic birch with a twenty year warranty against termite damage.

I asked my surgeon to speculate on the validity of the warranty to which he flipped his mask over - “Bullshit”. 

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