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what are the best year model(s) cornwalls?

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"What is the best year Cornwall?"

 

2019 

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2 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

Lesson 1: DROP TESTS on box-type loudspeaker cabinets are conducted for a number of reasons, ONE of the MOST IMPORTANT REASONS is to test the bonding of the adhesives used in the construction of them and to determine if it is truly bonding well at points of panel joints.  It can also be used to determine the superiority of different joinery types in order to make final production changes.  The entire concept is to have the box joints come apart, for one reason or another, and to note at what height of drop it finally did so. At this point the strength of the box-build can be used for comparison purposes.  As for bonding strength of the adhesives used at the now-broken joints, the breaks are analyzed to determine how well one panel bonded with its adhesive to another.  If the break is a clean break, then the bonding was not very good.  OTOH, if part of one panel is still stuck to the other panel, then the adhesive was able to make it into the fibers of both panels, prior to the adhesive completely curing....and a much better adhesive bond had been achieved with that particular adhesive and panel material type.  SInce the adhesive bonding ability is the goal, it can be compared to other adhesives and or other panel materials and the results of their drop tests.  This allows for the ideal material to adhesive combinations to be determined.  But, it also allows for determinations of which combinations still bonds well at a lower production cost for adhesives and/or panel materials.  Many other things can be determined, but these are considered two of the most important things gleaned from drop tests.

 

Well I guess every speaker I've ever owned had sufficient adhesive integrity to pass the drop test because not a SINGLE one ever came apart after years and years of ownership.  ..And EVERY one was made from MDF.  ..Come to think of it, I don't have a single friend who owns an MDF speaker that spontaneously came apart, or suffered water damage for that matter.  ..And like me, most have had kept speakers for many many years.

 

My advice to speaker desginers/makers:  Use whichever material makes for a better sounding speaker.  ..Leave it to the owner to keep the speaker safe from falls or water damage; you know, like the way one treats EVERY appliance in their home.  We don't pick our turntables, amplifiers, cd players or flat-screen TV's based on which can best hold up after being dropped, I don't see why we should assess speakers differently.

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31 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

Well I guess every speaker I've ever owned must of had sufficient adhesive integrity to pass the drop test because not a SINGLE one ever came apart after years and years of ownership.  ..And EVERY one was made from MDF.  ..Come to think of it, I don't have a single friend who owns an MDF speaker that spontaneously came apart, or suffered water damage for that matter.  ..And like me, most have had kept speakers for many many years.

 

My advice to speaker desginers/makers:  Use whichever material makes for a better sounding speaker.  ..Leave it to the owner to keep the speaker safe from falls or water damage; you know, like the way one treats EVERY appliance in their home.  We don't pick our turntables, amplifiers, cd players or flat-screen TV's based on which can best hold up after being dropped, I don't see why we should assess speakers differently.

 

I have repaired a few and threw out others not worth while.

 

Lets not pretend it doesn't happen.

 

My first set of speakers ( Jensen LS something) one of them fell and smashed in the whole corner and busted the seams and that was landing on 3/4" ply flooring with carpet on top.

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Jensen LS... not land safe.

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1 hour ago, HDBRbuilder said:

HOT, huh?  Try Kuwait summers...120 degrees F to 140 degees F for around 8-9 months of the year, MEASURED IN THE SHADE!  I was there for 2.5 years straight, too!😉

 

That’s one place I would not want to be. Especially when they’re oil wells were still burning after Saddam’s army had their scorched earth retreat.

 

Wb

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

https://www.svsound.com/blogs/glossary/speaker-baffle

 

"A speaker baffle is the front face of the a speaker...and is often an under-rated aspect of speaker engineering."

 

FWIW, I've only seen the term "motorboard" used by Klipsch.  ..Nonetheless, they are the same.  And the fact that Klipsch choses MDF for this "under-rated aspect of speaker engineering" for nearly ALL of their currently available speakers is interesting to me.

Alright I will bite. Why is this interesting to you?

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7 hours ago, Dave A said:

Alright I will bite. Why is this interesting to you?

 

Because it undermines yours and HDR's narrative that MDF is chosen because of cost rather than engineering considerations, including sonic qualities.

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PWK hated MDF and insisted on Baltic birch plywood (BBP) in his speakers.  He told me this personally as he compared the BBP construction of the Khorn to the MDF construction of the Speakerlab knockoff.  It’s interesting that Speakerlab switched to multi-plywood in the later years of production.

 

To the best of my knowledge (what say you @JRH?) MDF was not used in Klipsch products while PWK was still in charge.  It’s pointless to argue now about which is better.  Choose what you like; I choose to agree with PWK.

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4 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

Because it undermines yours and HDR's narrative that MDF is chosen because of cost rather than engineering considerations, including sonic qualities.

 There is an old saying about salesmen are the best customers for slick sales presentations whether the product is worthwhile or not. They appreciate a great sales pitch. On the other hand you have people who deal with the fallout of inferior material choices made by these marketing MBA people as they force the engineers to make do with crummy raw goods.  I do just love watching you defend that stuff though and tell me more. See here is the difference. We come up with why we don't like it and give examples as people who rebuild, build and restore. You on the other hand as a plug and play type trot out they all do it now like that means an actual improvement. There is a difference between hands on and repeating sales literature.

 .

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4 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

Because it undermines yours and HDR's narrative that MDF is chosen because of cost rather than engineering considerations, including sonic qualities.

There are no sonic quality differences. That's balderdash. We are talking about BASS boxes here. The walls of an MDF flex more than plywood. If Klipsch had used 1" thick, top greade, Baltic Birch instead of MDF for the LaScala II, they would have the same performance or better. Your "sonic" argument holds no water...............but MDF does hold water like a sponge.

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15 hours ago, Wolfbane said:

Scottsdale in June

SoAZ is not the place to be in June. It is HOT.

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15 minutes ago, Dave A said:

 There is an old saying about salesmen are the best customers for slick sales presentations whether the product is worthwhile or not. They appreciate a great sales pitch. On the other hand you have people who deal with the fallout of inferior material choices made by these marketing MBA people as they force the engineers to make do with crummy raw goods.  I do just love watching you defend that stuff though and tell me more. See here is the difference. We come up with why we don't like it and give examples as people who rebuild, build and restore. You on the other hand as a plug and play type trot out they all do it now like that means an actual improvement. There is a difference between hands on and repeating sales literature.

 .


Your distain for people with MBA’s is curious. Do you feel this way about others with advanced degrees? Like doctors, engineers, scientists etc.?  We live in a weird time when people with an extensive education are denigrated.

 

And just to be clear it’s not that I dislike plywood 🙂  Its that I dislike it when people make blanket statements, like “MDF is garbage”. Because such a statement impugns the expertise of the great majority of speaker designers who feel MDF is the equal or perhaps better material.  Designers like all of those that I listed earlier in the thread.  Plus, you discribe a durability issue with MDF that neither I nor any one I know has ever experienced. Which would include dozens and dozens and dozens of speakers.

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Educated does not equal intelligent, only persistence. An advanced degree is admirable but does not guarantee intelegence nor common sense.

 

That being said MDF has it's place in speaker construction as well as plywood and other materials. 

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1 hour ago, ODS123 said:


Your distain for people with MBA’s is curious. Do you feel this way about others with advanced degrees? Like doctors, engineers, scientists etc.?  We live in a weird time when people with an extensive education are denigrated.

 

And just to be clear it’s not that I dislike plywood 🙂  Its that I dislike it when people make blanket statements, like “MDF is garbage”. Because such a statement impugns the expertise of the great majority of speaker designers who feel MDF is the equal or perhaps better material.  Designers like all of those that I listed earlier in the thread.  Plus, you discribe a durability issue with MDF that neither I nor any one I know has ever experienced. Which would include dozens and dozens and dozens of speakers.

 

Experience it for yourself, take some time and do some comparisons in strength & durability then get back to us. Take a video if need be to prove me wrong.

 

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14 hours ago, billybob said:

Jensen LS... not land safe.

 

Neither were the woofer surrounds.

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Sometimes those with degrees are forced to comply when CEO, compels them to do so for the sake of the bottom line. It is apparent that MDF is here to stay.

And yes the exception rule. When you make exertion to generaize, one must always give a benefit of doubt owing to the exceptions...those that compromise are often times, less than satisfied with their product.

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29 minutes ago, ODS123 said:


Your distain for people with MBA’s is curious. Do you feel this way about others with advanced degrees? Like doctors, engineers, scientists etc.?  We live in a weird time when people with an extensive education are denigrated.

 

And just to be clear it’s not that I dislike plywood 🙂  Its that I dislike it when people make blanket statements, like “MDF is garbage”. Because such a statement impugns the expertise of the great majority of speaker designers who feel MDF is the equal or perhaps better material.  Designers like all of those that I listed earlier in the thread.  Plus, you discribe a durability issue with MDF that neither I nor any one I know has ever experienced. Which would include dozens and dozens and dozens of speakers.

No I only dislike degrees that have in general been a huge negative for  manufacturing and the preservation of the manufacturing base in the USA. The degree itself is not bad it is the predatory golden parachute larcenous mentality that many of its recipients have that bothers me. It is sadly a major that teaches the unscrupulous how to be so more effectively and draws that crowd in. Knowledge is a two edged sword for good or evil depending on it's recipient. Trust the company that has an engineering degree CEO before the one with the MBA because the engineer knows what needs to be done to maintain a certain degree of quality + long term reliability and to remember design specs are things to be adhered to and not things to be worked around to save a buck at the expense of the consumer.

  I have high regard for engineering degrees.

 

  I am amused with a conversation where the MDF side says "Its that I dislike it when people make blanket statements, like “MDF is garbage" and then says all the speaker builders of note use it and so do all designers and none of my friends have ever had problems. It is the cavalier dismissal of evidence to the contrary that I most like about your premise.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Dave A said:

No I only dislike degrees that have in general been a huge negative for  manufacturing and the preservation of the manufacturing base in the USA. The degree itself is not bad it is the predatory golden parachute larcenous mentality that many of its recipients have that bothers me. It is sadly a major that teaches the unscrupulous how to be so more effectively and draws that crowd in. Knowledge is a two edged sword for good or evil depending on it's recipient. Trust the company that has an engineering degree CEO before the one with the MBA because the engineer knows what needs to be done to maintain a certain degree of quality + long term reliability and to remember design specs are things to be adhered to and not things to be worked around to save a buck at the expense of the consumer.

  I have high regard for engineering degrees.

 

  I am amused with a conversation where the MDF side says "Its that I dislike it when people make blanket statements, like “MDF is garbage" and then says all the speaker builders of note use it and so do all designers and none of my friends have ever had problems. It is the cavalier dismissal of evidence to the contrary that I most like about your premise.

 

 

You're just wasting your time with this troll.  And if he actually cared about anything at all other than spouting off stuff, he would never have invaded the MUSEUM section of the Forum with this kinda crap!

 

I sincerely hope that JRH sees to it that all this argument gets deleted from this thread, myself!

 

Then he will have to go spouting off elsewhere!...hopefully, OUTSIDE OF THE MUSEUM SECTION!

 

GEEZ!

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5 hours ago, DizRotus said:

JIM, Please find a way to delete all of the argument about materials used from this thread!  It has nothing to do with the museum, OK?  Thanks!

 

Andy 

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1 hour ago, HDBRbuilder said:

JIM, Please find a way to delete all of the argument about materials used from this thread!  It has nothing to do with the museum, OK?  Thanks!

 

Andy 

 

This thread is in the 2-Channel Home Audio section.  And I don’t see why discussing materials is irrelevant to the topic. The title of the thread is "what are the best year model(s) cornwalls?"  As a switch was made from plywood to MDF  - from ver 2 to 3, I believe - I think my comments are germane. And if not, they certainly are not offensive.  You can alway exercise your right to not participate in the thread.

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