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Sony's digital amplifiers


Parrot

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"Dear Homer,

Bob Carver, aka "God's gift to audio", along with Sony have an army of engineers to put a nice product to a price point. Then marketing department take care of the rest making sure uncle Homers of this world will buy their products."

painful reality and dean g.

you both obviously are exhibiting your ignorance...bob carver has nothing to do with the carver professional organization....

it was bought out by the phoenix gold corporation in 1998....

keep calling me homer all you want but you are the idiots here....

just another example of someone who posts a knee-jerk response without knowing the facts!!!! or who can't even bother to read a link that i post!!!!

and that still doesn't address the fact that leok basically made a prototype amp..... not available to the rest of us....

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First of all, I have trouble writing the words MINN_MALE42 without thinking I am responding to a PERSONALS ad....and to the WRONG sex! You know, you dont have to use the same moniker.

Seriously though, I have been into this audio mess for far too long to have kept my sanity.... But one thing I have found out. I feel your comments regarding buying Sony and/or Carver vs something from a cottage industry ie Leo to completely fly in the face of all my experience in audio world. I have found the small builders build BETTER GEAR more often than not as they dont rely on pleasing the mass public or an big adverising budget. No only that, but they are involved from start to finish; it's their baby.... and they put a lot more effort into getting right, taking the task personally through all the stages. Almost ALL my gear has been from small cottage designers, even the larger brands comparatively speaking. To be even more frank, I have never owned or reviewed a amplifier from Sony or Carver that I thought was particularly compelling, especially sonically. Carver, in my view, makes some pretty mediocre amplifiers. I know this is not the same division, however. So I will address PRO AUDIO, something I have been around for awhile as well. What's my take on pro audio? IT is some of the ABSOLUTE WORST SOUNDING GEAR I HAVE EVER HEARD. In fact, seeing the words PRO AUDIO almost brings to mind back breaking reliability with ear breaking sound. Now there ARE EXCEPTIONS. I will say this again...THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS. Unfortunately, 90% of the pro audio I have heard while working in bands, a radio station, and running a small in-home recording studio have been sonic dreck that dont perform as well in the home listening environment.

See below?

http://www.progressive-engineering.com/klipsch/pe_table.jpg

This was made by one person. IT is not cheap but it works better than 99.5% of the turntables I have used. Ditto with the Welborne Labs Moondogs that have had one minor cap problem due to a rectifier tube letting go. Most of my best gear has been built by individuals!

So your conclusions dont ring true to me. On the other hand, does the above rule out the big manufacturers? No. They make some great gear as well. But I have found more satisfaction from small designers with audio gear. And have the least respect for the sonics of pro gear, if not the reliability.

btw, Leo's amplifier has been on for months and has not missed a beat. Better than many big name brands, sadly enough.

kh

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minn_male42,

By listening to horn-loaded loudspeakers you have placed yourself in a minority. You may decide whether you should purchase an amplifier from a company that has made no point in satisfying the requirements of your very efficient loudspeakers, or look to the small businesses that care to directly address the needs of the speakers you have chosen.

You may do very well with the larger companies. I think you won't. With the smaller businesses I think you will find a higher quality product that is a better match for the speaker technology you have chosen.

leok

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SS used with Chorus

-2 Denon integrateds

-one Marantz 70s receiver

-Sherwood newcastle power amp

tubes

-2 Scotties

-Dynaco

Liked the P6D better than the Dynaco and all the SS.

Some people are just sheep to the marketing bent of big business.

I would expect PWK never got a Christams card from Sony. And he never lost a wink of sleep over it.

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"To be even more frank, I have never owned or reviewed a amplifier from Sony or Carver that I thought was particularly compelling, especially sonically. Carver, in my view, makes some pretty mediocre amplifiers. I know this is not the same division, however. "

first off...in case no one here is paying attention....carver professional has no affiliation with bob carver or his older products....OMG...can't anyone pay attention?????

secondly.... have you heard the new digital amps from those companies???? i keep getting tons of responses from alot of people who have NOT HEARD THE PRODUCT!!!!!

at least over at audiocircle there are people who own the product or at least have heard the product....

can one engineer produce a better product than a major corporation?...maybe...maybe not.... i have 15 people that i respect on another forum swearing by a carver amplifier...one of decent power and that i can buy.....

here....a product that some guy made in his basement of low power....ok.....

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"here is the link to the discussion about the sony all-in-one units over at audiocircle....

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=2297"

MINN_MALE44(You have no doubt put on a few years since this was invented), are you kidding? You actually made a big deal bout the rather tepid exchange in the forum above? We have more imformed exchanges in 2 Channel of the Klipsch forum! Ironically enough, I DID notice someone on the first page stated the EXACT same comment I said regarding the all in one aspect.

I sure hope the Sony sounds better than it looks....although I will hold final opinion till I hear it. But the exchange on that forum was really weak. The early ES series gear sure was built to a higher standard externally.

By the way, some very good points have been made to you and you continue to ignore the more viable statements only focusing on certain lines. I thought some good statements were made.

Will be interesting to see how you find this digital amp stacks up against the SCA-35.

kh

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veering back to the topic...

I too, have been intrigued by the new push towards digital amplification by some of the "majors" (Sony, H-K, Panasonic). Particularly Sony's "one box" solutions which I posted on a few months ago. I even strongly considered the Sony AVD-S50ES for myself, as a very elegant music-room solution. (In my old age, I find myself attracted to the idea of fewer boxes being a GOOD thing, as opposed to my foolish youth, when the more boxes I had in my rack, the better I liked it!) Ultimately though, I ended up going with a Pioneer Elite receiver and universal disc player (OK, 2 boxes instead of 1 - still not bad!)I do believe though, that digital amplification will be the trend, in the mainsteam at least, in the coming years.

As for the bitter dispute over corporate engineering vs. entrepeneurial engineering, I tend to prefer the big boys. You usually get a better developed product at a better price. But to each his own, eh?1.gif

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>> "or....one electrical engineer building 10 amplifiers of low wattage power... in his spare time....(maybe a hobby?).....that he complains has distortion problems....

you decide...."

Well, that's easy, I'll go with Leo any day. :)

Tom

Hey Russ, tighten up your necktie, the ol' foreskin's creeping up again....

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First off - I have not heard this unit so anything I say should....well...read my sig first and you get the picture.

My impressions from the announcements and the various discussions (both here and on audiocircle) is that this is certainly worth investigating. Right now I would be looking for something to replace my hodgepodge system in the bedroom - although I would want it to run in 2 channel only mode as I only have 2 speakers in there.

As to how it will sound in comparison to tube setups I would be surprised if it betters them, especially with high sensitivity speakers but that will have to wait till I get hold of one.

In the meantime Sony's history of audio products does not really inspire. A few products have indeed been higher quality but my own experience of trying their stuff is that it is ultimately disappointing. This was especially true for their lower end SACD players which have failed to impress, particularly in CD playback.

Cant say I have had too many positive experiences with their amplification solutions either. this is not to say that these new products may not be ultimately magnificent, I just would be somewhat surprised.

Lets not talk about their speakers!!!

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Digital power amps are not for me.

Lately I have been moving away from digital and embracing analog with a bear's arms.

Haven't even powered up my CD player in a month.

Hey, I heard of a digital speaker a while back; it had a panel of what looked like cylinders that popped in and out in time to the musical information. Suppose that generated some kind of noise in the process.

Digital is not implicitly better.

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I found the audiocircle posts interesting and did not feel threatened by them. They are simply posts by individuals with varying degrees of knowledge, interest, and technical experience.

This stuff about Sony = Big = Bad is pure elitism. It's the Sonys of the world who come up with great products in the first place. Then the small audiophile companies slap a different faceplate on, make a few mods, and raise the price fivefold. There are actually people insecure enough that they wouldn't want anyone to know that they have any Sony equipment. Numerous audiophile types were upset when Sony was the only game in town for getting an SACD player. One guy went so far as to take the Sony name plate off, so as not to be embarrassed when his friends came over. Kind of pathetic.

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Well I can't speak for others motives as per why hide Sony ownership. I don't like Sony's reliablity issues, over all the years I've owned Sony products, they have ALL machanically failed from one degree to another. I dont buy Sony products PERIOD, for that reason.

Tom

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Interesting views and ideas, Mark. I happen to agree on that level, although I will go one step further and say that not only is it the artist's own vision, but also a better product much of the time as the cost cutting constraints tagged on by the acounting/advertising load brings quality DOWN. This is not always the case but more often than not. Of course, I dont mind Sony televisions nor my wife's walkman, but when it comes to amplifiers/preamps etc, I havent heard a piece of gear from Sony that was even remotely compelling sonically in memory, if not EVER. Perhaps the digital amps might be different. I HAVE heard some Marantz SS integrateds that were not that bad. Still, none of them have come close to equaling something as low cost as the Monarchy Audio SM-70. Sony, Panasonic, etc do great at mass market consumer goods ie walkmans. But this stuff is really not what we are talking about here. But Mark made a good post... and it does transfer to many things besides audio as noted.

Parrot, I think you are really off here on your assessment of small companies as merely taking what the large corporations do, slap a new nameplate on it, add some mods, and then raise the price five-fold. Elitism? I dont think so. This really illustrates a lack of experience with some of this gear. Have you had bad experience with some of the cottage guys? What have you bought that you are referring to?

Ironically enough, I have had FAR better performance and FAR better reliability with cottage industry gear. On top of that, 99% of the time, if there IS a problem, they will fix it and in a timely fashion without going through piles of red tape, sometimes throwing in upgrades or refinements at no charge. I cant tell you how much more satisfying the dealings have been with small cottage audio makes vs the large names, so much so that I dont look to them for solutions unless we are talking TV, toaster oven, walkman, etc. On top of that, you usually get to talk to the DESIGNER when dealing with the company. No, mom and pop dont compete with Walmart... but they sure do quality wise!

HAve I written them off? NO. But I surely havent seen great quality down that pike for a long time. And when Sony DOES attempt to go the QUALITY route, ala the top notch SACD player, the price is anything BUT cheap.

Large name companies specialize in bringing products to meet a price point and not a sonic ideal. The cost is far more at the leading edge of the equation by the time it makes it to ShortCircuit City.

kh

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