Jump to content

Chorus II vs. Forte II (a small review)


shank2001

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone.

There have been a few comparisons between different Klipsch speakers on here... the last one that I read was the Cornwall Vs. Chorus II. It was very interesting and I liked it, especially as reviews of Klipsch Heritage speakers are hard to come by on the Web. :) Some mentioned that they would like to see a Forte II Vs. Chorus II shoot out. Well I decided to buy a pair of Forte IIs recently for another system, and so now I have the opportunity to tell you my impressions compared to my Chorus IIs that I bought 10 years ago.

First the size. From the dimensions listed for both speakers they sound pretty close. The Forte II is just a few inches smaller in every dimension. But when I unpacked them there is definitely a difference. The Chorus IIs look huge next to the Forte IIs. The Forte IIs would be a bit more wife friendly I think. Also if you move a lot, the Chorus IIs are much harder to move around.

The sound. I hooked up the Forte IIs and set the output level to a specific value of 101db at my listenting position with a SPL meter using test tones and immediately started listening. (I had not listened to my Chorus IIs for a few days). Initially I thought they sounded remarkably like the Chorus IIs. Good highs and midrange, nice bass. Overall I was very impressed. These it turned out were my first impressions, and they changed when I started switching between the two speakers.

I then switched to the Chorus IIs, set 101db at my listenting position and started listening to the same songs. Well I had been wrong about the Fortes They did NOT sound like the Choruses. The Choruses had a much bigger sound. more bass, and deeper, more punch, and in general just a richer sound. The Fortes sounded a little watered down in comparison. This is very interesting to me as the specs list the Fortes as having a deeper bass extension. 39hz for the Choruses vs. 32Hz for the Fortes. I tried changing the position in the corners of the Fortes, tried different angles, tried lots of things, but no matter what I did I could not get the Fortes to have more or deeper bass than the Choruses. I then tried test tones and found the Chorus IIs to extend much farther down than the rated 39hz. I started at 100hz at 101 Db (the whole house vibrates at that level on a pure test tone) It did drop to 98 at 32 hz and dropped quickly past that. But it is very usable down to 32hz and a bit below, and at 39Hz it was still at 100db.. only 1db down from 101db at 100Hz!

The Forte on the other hand was down to 98db at 45hz (from 101db at 100hz) and just got worse from there. It was at 92db at 32Hz. This is not anywhere near the 32 to 20000 +-3db it is supposed to have (you would think)! Well actually maybe it IS... if there was a +3db peak around 100hz (where I started measuring) then -6db from that would be just about 92db at 32Hz. Almost within the +- rating as long as nothing has a higher peak in the rest of the range. Conversely I think the Chorus II are not peaking where I started my test at 100hz. I think they might have a high (+3db) peak in the midrange instead (it definitely has more punch and clarity in this area) and so the 6db drop from that peak might happen at 39Hz but stay pretty flat from there down to 30Hz. So since I started from 100Hz where the choruses are not peaking but instead might be at 0 or even a bit negative there, the -6db drop from there doesnt happen until lower than 30Hz (maybe around 27 or 28hz! At 25Hz there is pretty much nothing from the Chorus IIs so the drop off is FAST past 30. But it is also non existent for the fortes at 25 HZ and much less at 30 than the Choruses as well. My test tones do not get that close together so I don't know exactly where the huge dropoff begins. Just goes to show, where the peaks are can really change how the standard +-3db measurements look. The Fortes could be +-3db 32-20000Hz but still have less bass and less deep bass than a speaker rated +-3db 39-20000. It all depends on the WHOLE curve. Or maybe the Fortes just do not get along with my room? I made charts showing what I think is happening, if anyone wants to see them e-mail me at sean.keegan@verizon.net. It is much easier to explain using a graph. Any way I try to understand it, the Chorus IIs definitely have deeper usable bass than the Forte IIs. This is indesputable in my listening room. Overall I was very surprised by these results and I guess it just shows that the 6db spread in a +- standard measurement can be misleading over actual speaker performance.

As for the upper ranges...The Chorus has more presence, and in general just sounded more effortless at the high listening volume of 101db. They both sounded clear and crisp, very very good soundstage, true Heritage Klipsch sound. They both sound great. Which brings me to my final thoughts... overall the Chorus II was the clear winner to me, no doubts at all for both myself and my wife. BUT this is not to say the Forte II is not an incredible speaker. It stunned me in how good it sounds. Do not read this and think the Fortes have no bass, or bad bass... this is not true, it was shaking the house with bass... it just does not have as much or as deep as the Choruses. Its just that the Chorus II takes what is so excellent in the Forte and builds on it, and takes it to the next level. The biggest difference was in the bass, while there were significant differences in the upper ranges, they really were pretty similar overall. I am very very happy with the Forte IIs and they will perform perfectly for what I bought them for... the upstairs system. :)

Hope this was fun to read. It was fun to compare. Not scientific, of course, in any way. But it was fun.

Again e-mail me if you want to see my charts of what I think is going on frequency wise... they explain what I was trying to say with words so much better.

Regards,

Sean

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sean,

Great review ! You really put some time and effort in. I personally think for a hobbiest you took the guess out of the equation. Pretty scientific of you ask me.

I have heard Chorus II speakers but never Forte II's. My impressions are very favorable for the Chorus speakers ! I was especially impressed with there bass also !

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LEOK should chime in; I think he had or has both speakers.

He has been a bit quiet lately.

THe passsion of the Forte owners does not seem equivilant to the passion of a Cornwall or Chorus II.

LaScalas, Belles, and K Horns being folded designs are another sound and performance level that is not easy to compare.

My Chorus maze me with what they do with different genre's of music. I listened to Patricia Barber "Companian" last night and it was interesting to have the soundstage be so clear you could be critical of how the band was miked for the recording.

I thought the snare drum sounded poor. The rest of the band and her vocal is awe inspiring.

I will post another CD that is amazing later tonight if I get time.

PS: Craig keeps mooching listening sessions at my house with the Chorus IIs.

Shameless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sean,

Thanks for the review. Im interested in the Forte's because of their bass specs!, How come they don't give more bass than the Chorus's? If I read well the specs, the Chorus have a 15 inch sealed driver, and the Forte a 12 inch with a 15 inch passive.

In my experience, even with the smaller driver, a speaker with a passive driver will reach lower than a sealed box. The specs at Klipsch site apparently confirm this feeling.

And now you come to write this review that has confused me... should I get the Chorus instead??? 6.gif

Currently Im very happy with my Heresy's, but want a Heritage speaker with bigger mouth for the horns. In the bass department Im covered with my Tempest sub, but it doesn't hurt to have lower bass than what my Heresy's are able to put... just in case. 9.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Manuel,

Actually I have the Chorus II speakers and they have a 15 inch passive radiator on the back, unlike the original Choruses, and they have deeper bass.

Regards,

Sean

----------------

On 10/17/2003 10:38:06 PM Manuel Delaflor wrote:

Sean,

Thanks for the review. Im interested in the Forte's because of their bass specs!, How come they don't give more bass than the Chorus's? If I read well the specs, the Chorus have a 15 inch sealed driver, and the Forte a 12 inch with a 15 inch passive.

In my experience, even with the smaller driver, a speaker with a passive driver will reach lower than a sealed box. The specs at Klipsch site apparently confirm this feeling.

And now you come to write this review that has confused me... should I get the Chorus instead??? 6.gif

Currently Im very happy with my Heresy's, but want a Heritage speaker with bigger mouth for the horns. In the bass department Im covered with my Tempest sub, but it doesn't hurt to have lower bass than what my Heresy's are able to put... just in case. 9.gif

----------------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sean

Nice Review

What I have found is the Forte shines in smaller rooms. Got an small extra bedroom you want to use as a listening room. The Forte is the speaker for you.

The Chorus like Sean points out definetely has the BIG heritage sound where the Forte and Quartet and Heresy fall a bit short.

JM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are absolutely right JM. I bought the Forte IIs for a smaller upstairs room, and when I moved them up there they really seemed to like that room better. They really sound wonderful. For anyone wanting to get the Forte IIs, don't let my opinion stop you. They are incredible speakers and I already know I will never sell them. They have the classic Klipsch sound. Its just that the Chorus IIs sound even better, as they should, in my opinion, as they are the Forte IIs bigger brother. :) But as I am sure everyone who owns Fortes knows, they sound GREAT! I wish Klipsch would sell the whole Heritage line new again.

Regards,

Sean

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of talk regarding the differences in bass between the Chorus and the larger Heritage speakers, but I would think the biggest difference would be in the midrange presentation. There should be a substantial difference between the sound thrown from the tractrix horn of the Chorus and the exponential horn of the Cornwall, LaScala, Belle, and K-horn.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just traded from Forte-IIs, which I owned for over 10 years, to Chorus-IIs. (I won't bring the RF-7s into this).

I reworked the crossovers in both, and most effective was replacing the electrolytic high pass caps on the mid horns (which are identical*)

For some reason, the high end of the Chorus-II seems smoother. Forte does have an upper mid emphasis right in the response curve .. maybe that's what I'm hearing. Also, the Chorus-II has a different, more efficient tweeter .. to keep up with the 2dB higher overall speaker sensitivity? Bass of the Forte definately went a few notes lower .. (only the RF-7 goes as low, probably also the various Cornwalls, and,of course, the KHorn). (Forte-II plays fundamentals on ALL the bass notes in "You Don't Have to Cry" CS&N, and "Rebecca" Pat McGee Band, Chorus-II misses the lowest. But the Chorus-II is bigger and more dynamic .. so the bass it gets (which is plenty low) sounds more powerful. I prefer the Chorus-II for the slightly improved top end and overall power and balance.

* mid horns on the '90 vintage Forte-II were louder than those on the '95 vintage Chorus-II (I swapped them to be sure). I prefer the softer '95 mid horns.

leok

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting post,Sean.I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about a comparison in the 75-85 db range regarding the difference in detail between them.I've not heard either speaker.There is a pr of Forte IIs for $650 in the AR Gazette-and walnut Heresys for $600.

SSH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi gang,

I am a long time reader, but first time poster. Firstly I would like to thank everyone for the great reads and info I have amassed from the Klipschforums over the years.

I too own both the Chorus II and Forte II. I recently purchased the Chorus's and have owned the Forte's since 1994 when I bought them new in a military exchange overseas. I had always just loved the Forte's for the past 10 years and never had a need to get any other speaker. This love was accentuated when I got an even better Receiver to run them off of.

But.....I always wondered if I would be happier with Chorus II's. When I bought the Forte's, both speakers were next to each other on the display floor in the tiny base exchange stereo section. The Chorus's were much bigger though, for a dorm room, and more expensive than the Forte. So I sat on my decision for a week. Once I finally headed back to the store, I came to find out that they were closing out the stock on Klipsch at that time and that everything was gone except one lone Forte model in black that had to be shipped from another base. I jumped on it at the time and lived with the Forte for the last 10 years with NO REGRETS after bringing them home, but always that little voice in the back of my head wondering what if I had gotten the Big Boys.

Recently I have wanted to expand my home theater system with some nice rear surrounds, and after looking at what RS-7's cost I decided to just find a pair of Chorus II's for sale somewhere used and move my Forte II's to the rear channel. Eventually I stumbled upon a pair and as a novice audiophile, here is my subtle opinion of the differences in the two speakers from a low tech angle:

The Chorus's do sound much larger and the word that everyone uses "more presence" pretty much accurately describes it. It just makes your room sound bigger, like you are in a larger concert hall. The base goes deeper, this is particularly apparent when I watch movies with them. I cant say it sounds a whole lot different in the base department as the Forte's sound, but it shakes the room more on the same volume levels with the same movies. Same sound, but more pressure levels. I actually have gotten more neighbor complaints of late.

I have come to use the "2-channel" setting of my receiver almost exclusively with the Chorus's too. I rarely just used it with the Forte's. I would use the center channel also on music listening before I had the Chorus's just because I liked the sound better, but when I tried it with the Chorus's the center made the music not sound as well. The best way I could explain this possibly is that I believe that, in my normal setup with the speakers about 8 feet apart facing dead forward with no toe in, the Chorus's spread music better, making a much better front stage. Its almost like using a phantom center channel with the Chorus's would sound better to me than if I were to try it with the Forte's.

And on the lines of the size/weight difference questions. On paper the dimensions look not that far off, but these baby's are a good bit bigger than the Forte's. I think the weight increase is based on the extra wood more than the drivers. Put side to side, the Chorus's look huge compared to the Forte's. I can easily move my Forte's around the room with no problems. The Chorus's are bordering on having someone else help me lift them. I can literally wrap my arms around the Forte's and just pick them up, but I cannot do this with the Chorus's. I would say the Forte's would make a better apartment/dorm room speaker for sure. The specs on paper just don't do justice to the size difference in person. I learned this the hard way by getting my Chorus's shipped to me after I bought them. The boxes were too big for even UPS to ground ship them.

After all of this rambling though, the Conclusion:

If all of my Klipsch's were to spontaneously combust tommorrow and I only had about $500 to $800 to spend on a pair of Klipsch's to replace them all,

I would choose.....................The first pair that I saw for sale in good condition, be they Forte II's or Chorus II's.

They are both that good, and either would be an excellent choice for any musical situation.

Bob

Mains: Chorus II's

Rears: Forte II's

Center: Academy

Receiver: Sony DA4ES

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sean-

Very good review. As a current owner of both Forte II and Chorus II I agree with many of your conclusions. While you'd think that a few inches wouldn't make much difference on overall size (bad pun, I know), putting the Forte up next to the Chorus is quite amazing. It is definitely much easier to move the Forte around the room, vs. its big brother.

My listening experince comes from having the Forte IIs as HT mains for nearly 10 years and now Chorus IIs as mains (about 18 months) with the Fortes as surrounds. When I was looking to upgrade my surrounds (KG 1.2), I asked folks here if they thought I would be best served by getting another pair of Forte IIs or stepping up a level and getting the Chorus IIs. Nearly everyone steered me to the Chorus. I was able to demo a pair at Chickey's house and that got me thinking. Another demo at Tony Reed's place after Mr. Paul's book signing got me really excited. Mike Lindsey and I had been discussing back and forth on a deal for his Chorus IIs, and I had recently found a pair of walnut Chorus IIs for my parents and they upgraded their 2-ch system to those from Forte II. When they said they liked the Chorus, I knew all was good and I pulled the trigger.

While I have not done a scientific study as you did, I agree and disagree with your conclusions. Granted, this is certainly based on room size, material, etc, so we have to take that with a grain of salt. Remember, I have the "carpted airplane hanger" for a room; 16x24 with vaulted ceilings between 8-12 feet. If you got better response than 39Hz in your location, that's great.

Almost immediately after hooking up the Chorus IIs, I could tell a much smoother midrange that was very pleasing, similar to your "richer sound." Even my wife, who does not understand my fascination with audio, commented how she liked the Chorus mid/high sounds over the Forte. "Not quite as harsh," were her words, and I would have to agree on that assessment.

And I could also tell they didn't have quite the bottom punch of the Fortes. I did my listening in 2-ch mode wih my Denon AVR-4800 acting as the preamp and the POA-5200 driving the speakers. I did not have the sub (at the time, PW-2200) on, so I could concentrate on the speakers themselves. That's not to say that they don't rock the room, but in my current listening environment, the Fortes dig just a bit deeper on material that I am familiar with. That's not to say that in my next location everything could change. But from where I sit now, the Forte rumbled lower than its big brother.

I can report that my parents have had similar experiences with their 2-ch system. They certainly prefer the smoother, bigger sound of the Chorus II and don't mind the little bit of bass you give up over the Forte II.

In general, I would agree that the Chorus is probably a better all-around speaker in terms of sound quality. You pay a price though because of its larger size, and weight (89lbs vs. 67 for ForteII.) I would venture that the 15" active woofer and the support equipment would add some weight over the 12" woofer in the Forte. And those extra inches add up fast in terms of cabinet and riser weight.

But you can't go wrong with either speaker, and that's why I kept the Forte IIs. If I had it to do all over again, I might have spent a bit more and gone for the Chorus IIs first thing, but then I wouldn't have the Fortes, and that has certainly been worth the money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...