leaddogak Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 I have recently purchaes a pair of Klipschorns. I absolutely love them. I currently have a Aragon 8008 MK11 amplifier. I am considering getting a pair of Aragon Paladium 1K's. Is this a good match? I have seen a number of people recommend a tube amplifier. What are some good matches there? I am not a techie. Just love good sound. Thanks for the help. Brett Rademacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hi Brett, I have run both 6550 tube and solid state amps into my horns and liked them both, although I don't have any experience with any Arogon products. The tube recommendation is typically for lower-power zero negative feedback SET amps (single-ended triode) that the horns can really make the most of. I personally didn't find much difference in the "higher-powered" tube gear (KT88/6550 AB-type negative feedback pentode, etc.)and a good solid state head (I am using McIntosh now) except that you have to change the tubes out every so often. I would like to check out a nice 300B SET lash up to see what all the hubbub is about. Good luck and happy hunting, DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hi Brett, what kind of music do you listen to? I'm not familiar with the amps you mentioned, but as you can see, I have both, tube and SS and the tube amp sounds great! I think it even handles the bass better than my Adcom. The thing with vintage is that for to get an equivalent sound in today's equipment, you would have to spend a lot more $$$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 I'm not to sure if there is a bad amp per say, mostly depends on your musical tastes and the need or no need for a pile of headroom. Klipsch are so sensitive you can drive them with a getto blaster if desired. High powered ss state amps rarely get the chance to reach there sweet spot on k-horns , db levels get to high well before your pre-amp offers any gain. More power hungry B&W's are more suited to expensive high powered ss amps. Klipsch heritage line are well suited to 1wpc to 40wpc of just about any tube offering, not to say that they can't or won't shine with a decent ss amp. I personaly run both. Good luck : Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 leaddogak, Welcome! To both the forum and Klipschorn ownership. What year Khorns did you purchase? What is the finish? We love pictures here, if you have any post them. You can post them by clicking the "attach image" icon on the "reply" page. Just do it before you type in your message or you will lose the text. I have no experience with the amps you mentioned either but here is what I've found in the twenty five years I've had my Khorns.SS amps tend to sound harsh unless they are biased in class A at least at low power. Since I've been hanging around the forum I have been experimenting with tubes and find that there is a pleasurable difference over any SS amp I have owned. With push/pull amps like my Scott299c there is adequate power for rather loud listening levels, great bass, midrange and highs. With my 300b SET amp there is a clearity of sound that is hard to describe but I have to restrict the volume some. Horns in particular are what one experiences in a live enviroment. No matter which amp you chose those Klipshorns are better than any speaker shy of ten times the price in dynamic range and live presence in my opinion followed by Lascalas, Belles, Cornwalls and Heresys in the heritage line. And RF-7,5 and3 in the reference line, (Did I cover everybody? I don't want to slight anyone except maybe Altec owners who need Khorns.) Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Welcome, Brett. To give you good recommendations, it would help to know what the size of your listening room is, whether you want to enjoy unrestricted dynamics, how much money you have to spend, and whether you are a vintage kind of guy or a new amp kind of guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted November 17, 2003 Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hi Brett When we were at Klipsch last summer they were powering the Heritage with Aragon amps. Sorry I do not remember the model maybe somebody else can chime in here what Klipsch was using. I heard comments from several tube amp owners, including Artto who has very exotic tube amps, stating how nice the Aragon sounded. The Heritage were not set up in a very good room either. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 I've been trying to match an amplifier to my newly acquired khorns for a month or so. It's not easy for me so far because there are soooo many choices and possibilities. I've tried 600w monoblocks. That was like putting a 600hp engine in a motorcycle. I couldn't hardly crack the throttle! Lot's of low level hum and hiss. Too much really. Didn't work well at all. I tried 200wpc dynaco SS amp. That was like a 300lb body builder working out with 30lb weights. Effortless but obviously not a good combination. Enough low level hiss and hum that it was annoying. Maybe it's just this particular amp or maybe the st400's are not as clean as some big watt amps? I tried a 17wpc fisher x-100-3 int tube amp. It sounded nice (& warm!?) but very weak. No bass slam at all. I'm now using a revox b251 100wpc int amp. I find that unlike the big dynacos it is very quiet when it's supposed to be. The 100wpc seems nearly perfect for the khorns. Unfortunately, there is no loudness circuit on this amp and the bass/treble controls do very little in the way of tailoring the music to my tastes. There is even less low bass than with the 17wpc fisher. My next amp will either be a yamaha m80 or a hafler dh500. I want to try the big watts again. Hopefully these amps will be clean and quieter than the dynacos. NOSValves is nearly done with my 340b. That'll be fun when I get that back! I've sold a few amps in the past that I wish I still had. I know the fisher sa300 would sound fantastic with khorns. It sounded great with my cornwalls. If I find another one it will be a keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 "...whether you want to enjoy unrestricted dynamics" LOL Paul - get your digs in early on the SET crowd. The point with the KHorn is that you have massive sensitivity (104 db/w/m) and can try anything. Many here run them with 2A3 set amps (3.5 watts) or 300B SET amps (8 watts). Of course if you want big orchestral / slamming rock etc. then you might want to look at alternatives including larger powered SET and PP amps - not to mention SS. But if its Jazz you are into then the "SET Magic" has worked its wonders on many here.... (Not me though - neither SET nor KHorns have crossed my threshold to date.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 ---------------- On 11/18/2003 8:28:04 AM BigBusa wrote: My next amp will either be a yamaha m80 or a hafler dh500. I want to try the big watts again. Hopefully these amps will be clean and quieter than the dynacos. ---------------- BB, I own the replacement for the Yamaha M-80,the M-85 and it is dead quiet at idle not to mention very warm sounding. I think it runs Class A up to 30 watts as I know the M-85 does. Let me know your opinon if you do make the purchase. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 BB, The nicest sounding SS amp that I have used with my Khorns over the years is my Nikko Alpha. Up til I seperated my 2 channel from the HT I used that power amp driven by the Yamaha pre-outs as it was much more musical with the horns than the Yamaha. Alphas go off very reasonably on ebay there is a II and a III on auction now. However, I can not comment on the II and III as mine is the original Alpha. 110WPC FTC (original FTC- one hour pre-condition at one third power before testing without thermal cycling.) and it is built like a tank. It even has power meters that can be adjusted to the power output. Let's you see how loud 1 watt can really be. I know that some "audio-piles" are laughing at me right now about Nikko but, I am entitled to my opinion. I now use tubes on the Khorns with great results. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 I think it's great to have a such a nice sounding, top of the line pair of speakers to experiment with. IMO, a great sounding stereo system starts with the speakers and works back to the elctronics. Eventually, with enough trial and error we will figure out a combination of gear that sounds good to our ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 On tubes, I could make you a deal on some 2A3 Paramour monoblocks. Nice place to start checking out SET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 For my purposes, I love what my low powered $5.00 vintage solid-state harmon/kardon receiver and low powered $250 vintage Class A Pioneer M-22 amplifier can do with their 20-watt RMS ratings on my big ole horns without any subwoofers. The Pioneer particularly sounds solid, notes seem well formed, complete and volume is NOT a problem. Yet, after awhile the M-22 also seems strident, assertive, pushy, loud and the music seems like a wall of sound coming at you. My $500 parafeed tube Bottlehead 2A3 Paramours do seem more delicate and relaxed; sub-woofers are required to give some oomph to the bass amplifiers, yet the sound also never wears me out. The instruments seem separate, individual, the notes more musical, easier to listen to; I am drawn to the listening chair, NOT repelled from it. The harmon/kardon 330B is more in the middle of the two. In fact, my vintage Dynaco PAS 3, series II, tube pre-amplifier with the harmon/kardon amplifier section is a very nice combination. And yes, these combinations excel with small vocal or jazz group settings. I have heard my super-sensitive walnut-oiled Cornwall 1, with B2 crossovers, driven by a ghetto blaster NOT too bad, about the same as a modern $500 solid-state receiver. I have also seriously auditioned, in my own home, with the same music and equipment, Carvers old 750-watt per channel M1.5 amplifier and Nelson Pass superb Pass Laboratories Supersymmetry Balanced Single-Ended Class-A*X250 (http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/archives/) amplifier. The Carver wore out my wears after long listening, the Pass was wonderful and can be found for about $4K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 18, 2003 Share Posted November 18, 2003 Welcome Brett, The amp you have runs in Class A up to 25 watts, or so and is made to very high sound and quality standards. I think you already have a good match. It has more power than you will ever use, but since it operates in Class A so much higher than most amplifiers, many of the common transistor problems are avoided. I do not believe Palladiums will sound better and they have much more power than you could possibly use. Like many here have said, the extreme efficiency if the Klipschorns means you can easily live with a 20 (twenty) watt amp in most homes and rock the place. I am not a tube amp fan, but there are many excellent tube amps available. I'd suggest investigating Conrad-Johnson, McIntosh, esp. the older ones, and other makes you will hear about here. There is a transistor amp that is often praised calles a Monarchy SM-70 you may want to consider. To go beyond your Aragon and make it worth the effort, you will have to look at Pass Labs, Mark Levinson and amps in that league. However, those amps are intended to drive very inefficient speakers and usually have much greater power output than you could use. They may also have more distortion at the very small power levels you will normally use. I have, just once, pushed 100+ watts through my La Scalas. I could not hear any distortion and could not hear properly for several hours after. It was so loud I could not endure more than one song. Normally I am running at about 1/100th of a watt and having peaks less than one watt (98 dB in MY chair). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Hi Brett I just this week bought back my Assemblage 300B SET tube amp that I regretfully sold this summer..I realized too late that it sounded better with my KHorns than any SS amp I used afterwards..luckily it didn't have enough power to drive the new owners much less efficient speakers, so he offered it back to me, and this after sending it back to the builders for the ultimate upgrade! I heartily recommed tubes, and the 300B does it for me, even with the type of music I enjoy, rock to country, mellow to hardcore. It really sings though, on horns and strings. I have heard 2A3 amps are better, I can't attest to this..I've never heard one. I am very happy with the Assemblage though! Can't believe my good fortune to get it "home"! I'm assuming by your moniker that you're a fellow Alaskan! Where are you located?? Regards, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effster Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 I also have an aragon 8008BB with an aragon 28k preamp driving my khorns thru 12 gauge house romex wire.I listen to LOUD rock and a cheesy reciever or a tube amp with a few watts just would not cut it here.The aragon stuff runs pure class A for the first 25 watts or so,it will be a fine match.The front end of the source is important as to not introduce any noise.Get a good cd player or transport and you will be in fine shape.Good luck...Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 And don't forget the Romex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 John can you help me with preamp ideas. I waiting for 2 Monarchy Audio SM 70 pros to get here and I'm wondering what would be a good preamp. Right now I have KLF 20s but I put in an order for some La Scalas. I don't know if I should go with a ss preamp or tube. I have never used any tube products so don't know anything about them. I'm going to use the LS in my home theater system but I want to set up a seperate stereo system just for music. I was thinking of getting the Monarchy 22c DAC and DIP upsampler and using it as a preamp. The only problem I have with the 22c is no tone controls. MY price range is $1000 and buying a preamp around June of 2004. Also since the LS are going to be used in both systems do you know of a good system selector I can use to switch the LS between systems? Thanks for any preamps you could suggest. Well I just bought a Luxman C300 preamp on ebay. This is the same Luxman preamp that my friend has so when I saw it I grabbed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdyer Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Hi Brett: first of all, i don't know $@#& from wild honey, but maybe this will help. I bought a pair of new K-horns from Klipsch in 1998, special order and spent a great deal of time talking with the regional Klipsch rep about amplification. He recommended low mu SET power for the mids and highs and high-power, level-adjustable SS for the bass. The SET magic really is apparent only above bass frequencies. i ran the K-Horns for a brief period with only a pair of 300B monoblocks, 12WPC, and was not quite satisfied with the punch at concert levels. However, once I bi-amped them and got the bass drag off the SET amps, man did they begin to sing. So maybe you shouldn't be looking for one amp, but two. Any advice taken should be discounted by virtue of the stupid advice given and taken by this author in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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