Tom Mobley Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 here's a pic, not a very good pic, of my temporary setup with new (to me) Khorns, Scott 222C and original Planet. It really couldn't be much worse, a tube amp and CD player actually sitting on a speaker but I don't mind saying this is the nicest setup *I've* heard. As long as I don't carried away with the volume. Neither the CD or the amp like being vibrated hard, but that's OK, they're not supposed to. In the next couple weeks I need to strip and re-lacquer the speaks and build some kind of gear rack. It's slow but I've only got just so much time off. I paid 350 for a 9.9 original Planet with remote, manual and box off Audiogon, I feel it was well spent money, every cent. Yeah, I know there's better stuff out there but it's going to be a LOT more money to get anything noticeably better. Tom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 LOL Cmon Craig, you actually think Edmond would try and provoke you? The Rega may sound good, but I think it's getting kind of old to keep recommending. You know how all these machines are, and it's just a matter of time before they start crapping out. One thing I strongly believe about new players -- is that no one should form an opinion about a new deck until it has well over 100 hours on it, preferrably more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Dean where you hiding tonight ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 NOSValves, You are one sick puppy! From what I can gather, disagreeing with your opinion, in this and other instances of topics you know absolutely ZERO about, is defined by you as "provoking" you, therefore bestowing the right to call me names. That demonstartion of ignorance and logic is truly scary. Maybe instead, you should be "provoked to think", before acting like you know something you do not. I could not stomach reading most of your posts, and don't, but on subjects where it's more than evident your opinion should be questioned, I reserve my right to do so. If you can't reply intelligently, maybe you should keep your mouth shut and keep your name calling to yourself. I can't wait to hear from the rest of the NOSValves boys about how I'm picking on poor ole' boy Craig. Dean, if your pending business alliance with Mr. NOSValves has you so blinded that you feel you must be his mouthpiece, without noticing the obvious imbalance, such is life. You're quite a joke Mr. NOSValves. Please continue digging your hole. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Blah Blah Blah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 ---------------- On 11/22/2003 11:49:36 PM NOSValves wrote: Blah Blah Blah ---------------- Without a doubt, you continue to set new standards for public debate. I hope enough has now been written by other ears so my ears have some credibility. Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas! Blah, Blah, Blah. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 I didn't say anything in Craig's defense -- why are you starting in on me? I do think it's kind of obvious that you go out of your way to antagonize him. I mean, all he said was that he would take one over the other -- it could have been based on reviews, his desire to prefer something using the newest developments, whatever -- since when does not actually hearing something mean you can't have an opinion -- yet it didn't stop you from pouncing on him. Yes, yes, I'm Craig's mouth-piece. I have to be, because if I don't kiss up he'll fire me. Don't you think all of this is rather petty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 The tjoeb 4000 is cheap looking for sure, but it doesn't sound anything like its looks. The DAC upgrade is 24/192 upsampler, not 24/96, with a true tube output. The stock unit has been totally redone internally all the way to the power supply, its been tweaked to the designers ears, along with a panel of others to assist in the listening during its development. It is suppose to be leaps and bounds over the original 99. I believe I have a good reference for my analog enjoyment, I can tell you although its not as good it gets pretty darn close. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Blah Blah Blah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Craig, to say I like the sound more "colored" than you do is completely incorrect. What is your basis for this new comment? My love for quality SET amps? My system is actually one of the most transparent and UNcolored I have heard. If by color, you mean lacking any top end sibilance or artificial quality, or a completely grain-free mid-band ala 2A3 in a good circuit with quality iron, than count me in. The Rega Planet, though still relying on the custom Burr Brown 18bit DAC, is not a colored player either, nor is it mediocre, a word I find very out of place in discussing this player. While we seldom agree on anything, much less listening, to arrive that I prefer more "colored" sound is an irresponsible use of the word. No, I am not a fan of the KT-88 per say, but not because it rings of accuracy in as much as I think it has a more threadbare midband that misses some of qualities of REAL music in open space. And I am VERY sensitive to anything that is overly etched that comes across in technicolor, this mistaken for good sound. We dont agree on much. But this has nothing to do with "colored sound" either in your direction or mine. Dean does bring up a good point regarding the AGE of the Regas and I have wondered a bit about this as well. But I will echo Allan here in saying the Rega Planet is BY FAR the best built CD player I have dealt with under 1,500 easily. Operating it is a dream. STILL, if talking about NEW PLAYERS, there is a lot of competition these days. And if CD is your only source with no vinyl, I might put some more ducats into the pot. I surely would not leave the Tjoeb 4000 out of the mix. On the other hand, the best deal on a USED CD player still remains the Rega Planet. I happen to listen to vinyl more than CD and the Rega was the very first player that made CD palatable. Actually, it made it MORE than palatable, and my CD collection quadrupled in size pretty quickly. These days, I would not only include the Rega Planet and Ah Tjoeb in the mix. There are other players out there that are encroaching into the $1000-1500 price range that deserve some thought. IF CD were my only source, I might step into this arena. At $350, the used original Planet remains the most quality engineered machine with the closest to analog sound at the price. It also makes one of the BEST TRANSPORTS around. I have heard that the Rega Planet into a Audio Note 1.x Signature is a GREAT combo but does introduce the demons of the digital interconnect. The 1 bit Audio Note with tube output, Jensen Copper oils, BlackGate and NO DIGITAL FILTERS is supposed to be emminently musical. It's a unit I want to hear as well. I also will finally get to hear something more compelling than SACD done on the cheap with an audition of the Sony SCD-777ES, quite possibly today. Are Friends Electric has the Ah Tjoeb 99 with NOS tubes and the Sony SCD-777es running into Wright Sound pre and 2A3 Monos, all into 77 Cornwalls. I looked forward to the listening session with the freak... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 My comment relating to the age of the player and possible problems with functionality applies to ALL used CD players -- not just the Rega. This idea of finding a deck that sounds "analog" is missing the mark. I still see this as two completely different mediums, each excelling in different areas. It's as much apples and oranges as comparing SET to PP, or Reference to Heritage. The best of the Redbook recordings sound wonderful to me, though I understand they will lack some of the inherent smoothness of vinyl. I have no problem with good digital -- as dynamics, bandwidth, and cleanliness of the presentation are more than just a touch above vinyl. Please realize I am talking about GOOD Redbook. SET amps running on Heritage are definitely "colored". With a drop to 5 ohms, and peaking at 50 ohms in the HF -- you can bet your *** you're not getting anything near flat response using a SET amp with these speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 People considering a purchase of a Rega, or owners of a Rega who may want to sell and get something more realistic in tone, should look objectively at this supposedly magical CD player that makes harsh digital recordings sound like nice warm analog recordings. Please consider how it could go about doing this. Could it be that Rega happens to know a secret method that has escaped understanding by all other CD player manufacturers for more than 20 years, including its creators, Sony and Philips? Or could it be that Rega has a colored sound that other manufacturers do not want? In order for the Rega to get the sound its fans describe, it *must* roll off the high end, and probably has a mild bass bump. If someone wants to use the Rega as a type of equalizer to eliminate some harshness, that's fine. But you're not getting an accurate tonal spectrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 I don't think it rolls off the highs -- but I think it probably does use a slow rolloff filter like my 9000es -- that definitely takes the edge off the transients. With horns, this probably isn't always such bad thing. I've noticed that the main difference between my two filter settings is that when I compare the slow rolloff filter to the "sharp" one -- the "slow" setting allows more ambience to come through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Kelly, Like I said I was in no way trying to insult you on this. I truly believe that you would be very hard pressed to go to a club , concert or recording studio and hear the pristine mid range forward sound that your Moondogs or HF-81 produces . I'm not saying this is a bad thing I'm saying its a preference. You have never heard the amps I listen to on a daily basis and your overly etched statement is just ridicules ! I believe your idea of overly Etched is that the transients that the artist purposely recorded into the music is something you don't prefer to hear in there entirety. What do I bass this on ? I hate to bring it up. I base it on 3 watts and the fact that I have heard many HF-81 and they do the same thing. 3 watts can absolutely not deliver transients in a as intended manor even with 100+ Db speakers ! I have studied and tested it many times and even middle of the road transient music (I'm not talking Mudvayne here) when playing at a steady state of even a 1/2 watts will easily use over 5 watts to make the transients so what happens when these transients hit ? The wave form is cut off. Like you have said many times the DHT tubes clip very gently so you have preference for this rather than hear the wake up call of a recorded transient. The same can be said about Bass reproduction. You find the HF81 and your SET amps to have wonderful bass I find the HF81 to have very loose flabby undefined bass notes. When the amp clips a base note it can easily be perceived as more bass when in all actuality its leaning toward the Boom machines that drive down the road. (I know this is a extreme example) The Rega planet ! My opinion of this player is as follows and I may end up with the same opinion on the Ah ! someday. If it transforms mediocre recordings (get this recordings) into something listenable ! How does it do this ??? It does it by coloring the sound ! Is there something wrong with this ? I say no some may love it . I take a different approach. I try to make my system reproduce the music as recorded if its recorded poorly then I just don't listen to that disc. I'd rather do this then not hear the great recording as there intended to be heard. I have a good number of LP's that sound horrid on my MMF-7 and listenable on my Mid Fi JVC do I listen to them ... nope !! I pretty much use the JVC for LP's that are questionable shape to see if I can play them on my $400 cartridge and also for those times when I'm to busy to be getting up and pulling the arm off the record with the MMF-7. Oh and I absolutely agree that the Rega is built like a tank ! No denying it is a well built player ! Its just old hat if you ask me and the latest offering from them is said to be a step backwards. The latest product from AH ! is said be a big step forward so my Gut tells me the Ah ! is the better choice on the new market. I myself would never pay 3 to 4 hundred for a used deck I'd save my cash and buy something brand new with a warrantee. I'm pretty darn sure that the latest Ah ! will trounce the Rega and no worries its going to take a dump on you anytime soon. I was slightly upset when I described the Rega as Mediocre that was a reckless statement. I think Old Hat would of been much better. Old Edmond has a way of bringing out the worst in me ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Ha! I'm actually on the other end of the spectrum here! I could careless about accuracy -- I want my system to sound musical, euphonic, and euphoric! Give me lush painted colors to sooth my wicked soul! I am not about to argue the point that SET sounds bad. I thought my Apollos sounded outstanding, and I haven't had a full bodied bass like those things put out since they left the house! However, there's no sense in being intellectually dishonest about this. I know THAT bass was a result of 2nd order distortion riding on top of the fundamental -- it sure wasn't "accurate" -- but it sounded GREAT. If some distortion adds to the enjoyment of the presentation -- then so be it. I know for a fact that when I take my Canary to the top it's clipping. I don't really hear it so much as I sense it. However, it sounds phenomenal. There is that point -- right on the edge -- where it just puts me "in the zone". I'm convinced 3.5 watts does the same thing -- but much sooner on the dial. Yeah baby, fuzz it up a little -- it's fine by me! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 If you have records that sound better on the POS JVC turntable that are in reasonable condition then: The Eastern European beauty ain't what it's all cracked up to be. Or perhaps you might have it dialed in all wrong? or You own some REALLY crappy recordings. And if that's the case, why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Alan, I believe that was my point ! Dean, Its official !! Your a audiophile Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 But then again, if I love something A LOT, like a scuffed old 10" that CAN NOT be found on CD or reissue LP, then I still listen--listen THROUGH the noise. I think all vinyl junkies are able to do this a least a little bit. I woke up this morning and put on Dodo Marmarosa's 10" Dial LP--scuffed and a bit worn and the recordings were done before audio tape, so the sound isn't hi-fi, but DAMN if it doesn't MOVE me every single time! But I can't for the life of me believe a cheap t/t would make it sound any better?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 ---------------- On 11/23/2003 11:41:39 AM Allan Songer wrote: But then again, if I love something A LOT, like a scuffed old 10" that CAN NOT be found on CD or reissue LP, then I still listen--listen THROUGH the noise. I think all vinyl junkies are able to do this a least a little bit. ---------------- Exactly, Allan. But I have read countless posts by other vinyl junkies who swear that on their set-ups they don't hear any noise. Maybe they have been transported by the music into not noticing the surface noise, but that doesn't mean it's not there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Allan, I can't unserstand your train of thought. The worse the meduim your playing the better the source is at showing the flaws ! Isn't that why people upgrade there TT , CD or whatever source you want to discuss ! Doesn't better = more refinement that lets more information thru and do it in a more percise manor ? So if the better table with better capabilties is going to make a pour recording or worn disc sound worse is it not ! I know a really noisy disc on my MMF-7 is actually more listenable with my Shure/JVC combo any day of the week. Now a great clean unworn album sound leaps above on the MMF-7 compared to the JVC in inner detail ! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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