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Rega Planet or AH! Njoe Tjoeb 4000


kuisis

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Will have to wait a little longer for my personally signed copy of the Angry Klipsch Forum CD, perhaps b/c it was too nice to be indoors today ole Kell was a no-show. As for the question du jour, from my experience, the Rega presentation has an advantage of sounding more accurate or "correct" most of the time, however the tube output on the Tjoeb makes up for it to sound just as musical, the rendering of horns, vocals, strings and other finer details can be especially palpable and dimensional with the Tjoeb at times, both players are stand outs, you can't go wrong with either, thankfully neither camp was satisfied with status quo (CD-imperfect sound forever). As it turns out the early Tjoeb98 and 99 were initially adjusted to 3.5V output, which was about where it was at when Kelly heard it, adjusting it closer to 2V brought an audible improvement IMO, refer to Adjusting the Outputvoltage section. The Njoe Tjoeb4000 is currently preset to 2V as well. Interested in reading a few more comments from Njoe Tjoeb owners on the differences with and without the 24-bit upsampler option, this again is one more way to adjust the unit to suit the listener's tastes.. btw, the Rega Planet uses a low-pass digital filter as well as a "unique" Rega analog post-conversion filter, more tech info available from Sam Tellig and John Atkinson's write up. I've already mentioned to Kelly that the CD playback of the Sony 777-ES reminds me more of the Rega than Tjoeb, perhaps one day I'll get to listen to a modified 777 with tube output. The 777 has a 24-bit VC (variable coefficient) filter which I prefer to keep in "standard" mode. From Sony Electronics,

The filters 24-bit process is 2 bits more powerful than Sonys previous best..The new filter also conducts twice as many operation steps and performs direct oversampling with three additional bits. When viewed in terms of operation steps, two bits yields 22 or 4 times as many steps, twice the operations yields 2 times the number of steps, and 3 bits yields 23 or 8 times as many steps. All told, the VC24 filter handles 4 × 2 × 8 = 64 times as many steps as Sonys previous best.

read 64X oversampling..

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Have been away from the BB for a couple weeks and glad to see nothing has changed.

I have not heard the AH! so I can not comment.

My Rega has been in the shop for over a year, so it's been awhile since I have heard it but I still would rate my current CD players as:

1. Rega Planet 2000 (picking it up this afternoon)

2. Very close second Heart 6000 with 1960 Telefunken Gold Pin E88CC tubes. With the stock tubes this becomes a distant second.

Before I bought the Heart I was going to get the AH! with the whole upgrade, but at the last second went with the Heart.

I have been listening to the Heart for the last year and am very happy with it.

I just bought the new Who's Next reissue Friday night and it is so good. Must have played both disks for hours and it was like hearing the album for the first time.

I also bought a couple of Buddy Guys and a double Monty Alexander. I have no complaints with any type music I play.

I think you will not have any regrets with either the Rega or a tube output CD player of your choice.

I don't know what Rega does, but they do it better than other CD players I have heard. Even with all the problems I have had with the Rega I bought, I am getting my sister and her husband a Rega for a wedding present. The only reason I'm not getting them the Heart is because I don't think they would be able figure out how to replace the tubes.

You all go back to slamming each other over the dumbest things.

Danny

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My Ah!4000 is the only CDP that I've owned and attached to my 2-channel system. I am very, very pleased with the sound.

Jeff Lessard and Leo Keightley have both had some listening time, Leo perhaps a bit more. His comments were something like, "That's a special sounding CDP."

There you have it, from Golden Ears himself. Trust me, his ears are DANG GOOD.

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  • 4 weeks later...

"I also will finally get to hear something more compelling than SACD done on the cheap with an audition of the Sony SCD-777ES, quite possibly today. Are Friends Electric has the Ah Tjoeb 99 with NOS tubes and the Sony SCD-777es running into Wright Sound pre and 2A3 Monos, all into 77 Cornwalls. I looked forward to the listening session with the freak..."

I am interested in this review. I have read that the low-end SACD's (like mine) don't really make the case for SACD so a review of the "superb SCD-XA777ES" (to quote TAS) would be of interest.

I'm also interested in impression of the entire system as I've eyed the Wrights for my 77 Cornwalls but having never heard them couldn't really justify the purchase.

FYI...I'm currently running the tube/vinyl system in my sig but with one flip of a switch a beast of a digital PC-based media center flows through it. I've been playing with internet radio & music services (including trying more jazz off the net) as well as DVD playback at 1900x1080i and movie backup. This all makes my emotions run from "cool!" to "why am I wasting my time and money when I could be just enjoying better 2-channel".

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Ken, I'll probably get to hear that system in the next week or so. I ended up missing that audition due to time constraints. Actually, the owner of that system is Are Friends Electric who posts on this forum. He got that 777es for so cheap, it was impossible to pass up. He also does not use vinyl so goes with an all digital system besides the EICO HFT-90 tube FM Mono tuner.

I'll post some comments. He has had the Wright 3.5 Mono's tweaked a bit by George as well as some additional NOS tube options like the vintage Meshplates, something I have been wanting to sample for awhile. These are not cheap options. I think he has amassed a better collection of NOS choices for the Tjoeb as well and played with the output voltage. The 777es will be an interesting listen with the Wright 6SN7 pre, 3.5 Monos, and CW.

Ken, what music do you find youself listening to most? What were you looking to improve from your vintage tube setup?

kh

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I'm with Johnson on this, wait that sounded wrong... Anyways, I would be very interested in the comparison between the Ah Tjoeb 99 with NOS tubes and the Sony SCD-777es! Since i'm seriously considering the SCD-XA9000ES, and starting to think that I could save alot of $$$ by getting something else, I'm very intresed in that comparison.

Kuisis-

Upscale Audio, the Ah! Dealer, has a used Rega Planet available, if you are intrested.

Rega Planet (pre-owned) Serial #014191. Black. Original model, not the Planet 2000. Original box, owner's manual and remote. Retail $795. Sell $375.

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----------------

On 12/23/2003 10:40:14 AM gunman45 wrote:

Tom,

Nice system but it seems to me that with a little AC/DC at even moderate volumes you would be vacuuming parts out of the carpet!

2.gif

----------------

I get oodles of dynamics from my system, high volumes are a treat. AC/DC Back in Black is amazing at 105db average.

Tom

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Can't blame you for not wanting to buy a used player, but the ES line has a 5-year warranty, as you know. I think this is stereo only, but that's probably all you want. It does play CDRs, which is good.

Seems reasonably priced to me if it's in mint shape, since it was originally a $1200 list machine.

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The only Sony ES that I do know the price of is the SCD-XA9000ES.

Oade Brothers (www.oade.com), an authorized sony dealer, sells them for $2400.00 as of an email price 2 weeks ago. I expect that it will slowly go down to $2000 in the next six months, so I'll probably hold off until then.

From all reports, Oade brothers is a good dealer and has some of the best prices for Sony ES products. They beat my local dealer for the XA9000ES by $400.

-Dave

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I was checking out the Allan Wright mods on Sony SACD players.

For Analog out, he just pretty much taps in right after the bitstream converter. It is pretty much a full voltage signal at bitstream level, from what I can understand.

Then he just makes his own regulated outputs, Balanced or Unbalanced.

Skips the Sony current pulse DAC's and a bunch of slop amps.

I don't know if he has parked a tube output of some sort after the bitstream converter yet, but he says it would be a spendy mod.

I'm curious, because this pretty much would make a said modded SACD a straight analog tube output.

Not tube outputs after the DAC, which are pretty much for buffering. IMO.

You can get the loaded boards for the mods, but it's rather costly. And you gotta prove your a "High Tech".

Hmmm....

Oh, and he changes out the clock.

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I too can't wait for results from the shoot-outs involving the Sony Es players and the Ah!

I've been saying for a while now, that "IMHO" The ES Players are some of finest players you can get in their price brackets. Even simular Units from Marantz, Rotel & Arcam (sp?) couldn't cut it. Something about the systems utilizing the ES's just sounded so right for me.

If my moneys were different I'd definely have one in my system.

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Hmm.. comparisons.. First off, the AH!Tjoeb99 is based on a modified Marantz CD-38 and is now only available on the used market (usually ~$375) The differences between the Tjoeb4000 without upsampler are relatively minor but perhaps worth mentioning. Haven't auditioned the Tjoeb4000, but in most respects it appears to be a step up, even without upsampler. Head to head comparisons between the upsampled Tjoeb4000 and the Sony SCD-777ES may actually be what most listeners would find interesting, for the most part Chip Stern decided not to go there.

With that said, I use Amperex Orange Globe 6DJ8s in the Tjoeb99 tube output section, a nice rich midrange here that is only enhanced with the Wright Sound gear. Add 1976 Cornwalls and it's live music, there's a very special synergy going on with 2A3, with a 3-D soundstage it's easy to be drawn into the music. A very engaging player. Tube swapping on the Wrights becomes a nice pastime, everything seems to work together.

Swap in the SCD-777ES, the CD playback is noticeably more detailed than my AH!Tjoeb99. Some players, especially the Sony line, are very good at extracting every minutia of the audio source signal, however after extended listening sessions the music becomes too etched, analytical, and is better suited for listeners who enjoy clinical, detached exploration of their CD's bits and bytes. I thought this to be exactly the case when I first tried the 777ES, but with patience and at least 400 hours of playing time it finally opens up, the ease of music becomes apparent, a smooth and rich quality takes hold. The details that were there in the beginning are even more focused, full-bodied and complete. I realize now that the coherence of this player is what sets it apart from many others, there's less effort with the 777 to differentiate individual instruments in a classical line up for example, complex passages are less congested and music I've heard before is simply reinvented into something fresh and brand new. There also seems to be exceedingly low distortion with this player, this offers a very nice complement matched up with "distortion box" tube gear. The 777ES isn't perfection by any stretch, there's occasionally a hint of dryness on the top, and wide variances with software quality in general still exist. Considering a tube output mod for the 777, although by leaving it on continously, it usually ends up sounding just as smooth as the Tjoeb99. Overall, with detailed room-filling sound, I don't feel the soundstage is lacking at all. As for tube magic, at this point it's really less about sounding pleasant and more about sounding accurate, when offered this option I think many will prefer realism, coincidentally this goes hand-in-hand with the Klispch speaker philosophy. Interestingly the 777 really shines with the inexpensive Sovtek 2A3 (matched with the RCA 6SN7 grey glass VT-231s). With this player I also have an easier time switching the Wright WLA-12A preamp on high gain with few penalties to report with the added juice, it does indeed support better dynamics.

As for other players, recently heard the XA-777ES in a multi-channel solid-state Mark Levinson system, an impressive performer but don't feel I had enough time with it to comment on perceived improvements, if any, over the SCD-777ES when it comes to 2-channel playback. Though it's second nature when watching movies, I'm really still undecided about MC when it comes to most music. Haven't heard the SCD-XA9000ES, but expect it to be a close cousin to others in Sony's ES line. The CD playback quality with the Philips 962-SA player sounded flat and lifeless compared to either 777ES or Tjoeb99 IMO, the Marantz 8300/8400 universal players do a somewhat better job but tilt towards too much treble for my taste.

The added bandwidth with SACD thru a stock 777ES is something to experience and comparisons with other players I've heard require a separate post. An SCD-777ES found on the used market for $1500 or less offers a superb option IMO. When Kelly is over to hear it I think he'll agree..

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