kenratboy Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I am looking to replace my dead Parts Express plate amp with a new EQ (ART 351 looks cool) and amp. I know Crown and QSC are both good companies and both make $300 amps I like (600-800 watts 8 ohms bridged) - however, do you think one brand is better overall? I am partial to Crown, as they are part of Harman International, and all the dealings I have had with them (JBL, JBL Pro, Harman Kardon, and AKG) have been EXCELLENT (customer service was AWESOME.) Would a new (I want new, but I will be hitting the pawn shops soon...) Crown amp be good? I am looking at the XLS 402 for $300 from Musicians Friend. It is no frills, and thats what I want. $100 for the ART 351 EQ (has a good high pass on it) $330 for the Crown XLS 402 (800 watts) Sound good? As it is, I have no subwoofer right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 i would recommend the crown over the qsc in terms of used amps.... the biggest weakness in the qsc amps is the obnoxiously loud fans.... if you can find a geat price on a used qsc... go for it... but plan to replace the 24 volt fan with something quieter also...be sure to hook it up in bridged mode and crank it up before you leave the pawn shop.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted December 30, 2003 Author Share Posted December 30, 2003 Cool, exactly what I wanted to hear BTW, I like your new avitar image. That was a great episode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 I've used (& prefer) Crown amps for decades. They may not be in the same league sonically as the tube stuff I use, but I don't understand why some people constantly slam their amps. They first started getting a bad rap when "Otala distortion" (transient modulation distortion) was brought to everyone's attention sometime back in the 70's. This type of distortion seemed to be predominant in many SS amps, especially those with high amounts of negetive feedback (which Crown used to 'brag' about). I have a letter from Crown stating that Matti Otala himself had tested Crown amps for this kind of distortion & found them to be free of TMD. So I think the 'bad sound' is primarily in many folks heads. Hell, even Absolute Sound once reviewed the Crown DC300A with the legendary Infinity Servo-Statics & said how great it was & that this was probably the ultimate amp to drive them with (funny how the Infinity SS is still highly regarded, but Crown 'sounds bad' to this same crowd, AFTER the TMD thing came about). But be careful. Crown has broadened it's product line, especially into lower price points. I doubt you're going to get the same sound quality (& possibly reliability/longevity) out of their XLS or CE products as you would from their D, K or Reference series products. On the other hand, one of their claims to fame is basically being 'customer proof' (as one Crown engineer told me). I still have some of my very first Crown gear from 30 years ago. It's been left on all the time. Just for reference, IMO, the old D60 is one of their best sounding amps if you can make use of a low power amp. The SA2 & PSA2 can be had for a song. They sound pretty smooth with horns. The fan noise (even at very low 'idle' speed) can be a problem if your room is very quiet. I'm thinking of selling mine (275w/ch@8ohms, about 800w/ch@2ohms) if anyone is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted December 31, 2003 Author Share Posted December 31, 2003 Wow, it gets better and better Basically, I am looking for a good, powerful amp (1000 watts would not be overkill for this sub), and obviously, pro is the way to go. I don't have a lot of cash, so I am looking at the used market now. There are plenty of pawn shops in Reno, as well as music stores. However, the ART 351 looks really nice for $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Good post artto. Give me a Crown DC300A any day however I've had good luck with some of the QSC stuff compared to the newer and less expensive Crowns. I still prefer Crown if forced to make a choice. Ken, the ART 351 works O.K for me with my SVS subs just make sure you have it well grounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 artto, there are some very good professional amps out there... and crown makes some of the best of them.... i think that even in the lower end of the crown lin you still get great reliability and sound..(esp for a subwoofer)... the fan issue can be addressed by replacing the stock fan with a quieter alternative.... not too hard to find if you look hard enough.... but you are right that many "audiophools" look down at "mere" commercial amps.... it's their loss.... i still would like to have a crown K1 in my system for a week to audition... or even better..one of their studio reference series.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Might also want to visit Mackie too... Just a thought.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 mackie.... just say no.... huge quality control issues since they moved all of their production to mainland china..... mixers... speakers.... amplifiers.... all have serious issues of quality control...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted January 1, 2004 Author Share Posted January 1, 2004 ---------------- On 12/31/2003 11:10:02 PM minn_male42 wrote: but you are right that many "audiophools" look down at "mere" commercial amps.... it's their loss.... i still would like to have a crown K1 in my system for a week to audition... or even better..one of their studio reference series.... ---------------- I have a 150 pound professional movie theater bass cabinet - why would you NOT want a high-current pro amp to drive it? I love pro gear. My dream HT would have JBL Pro drivers and Crown Studio Reference amps. I will also pimp a 8u rack for the gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted January 1, 2004 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 1, 2004 Both are good. When we set up a cemina with Klipsc pro speakers, we use QSC. We use QSC in our lab as well. The powerlight units are quiet. If you short a speaker wire, they tell you by shuting down and turning on again. In the 4 years in the lab here, we have never had to replace a QSC amp. That is what I plan to use in my HT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 Trey , How Big of a QSC AMP are you going to use in HT.............looked up qsc , and they have many choices.......... just researching.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 i had considered getting one of the new qsc sra series amps.... designed for home use with quieter fans..... i ultimately went with a carver professional ZR amp..... Building upon QSC's widely recognized reputation throughout the cinema industry as "The Power Behind the Pictures," the SRA (Studio Reference Amplifier) series power amplifiers bring world-class audio performance to recording studios, high-end home theaters, and numerous additional applications. The SRA series encompasses three modelsthe SRA 1222, SRA 2422, and the SRA 3622. Power points for these models range from 200 watts/channel at 8 ohms through 725 watts/channel at 8 ohms. The SRA amplifiers draw upon the company's expertise in high frequency (HF) switching power supplies and include the popular DataPort for integration with optional crossover and DSP modules. The SRA's exemplary performance is a result of QSC's advanced HF switch mode power supply technology. This technology enables the amplifiers to weigh considerably less than conventional transformer driven models while also occupying less rack space. The benefit is crystal-clear highs, smooth and accurate mids, and a powerful, articulate low-end responsedesigned to add that extra realism to your audio playback. Further, a full complement of connectors facilitates easy integration into virtually any environment. QSC's SRA series amplifiers also boast useful features such as individually selectable clip limiters and subsonic filters, front-mounted gain controls, plus signal and clip LED indicators to monitor performance. SRA series amplifiers can be configured for stereo, parallel, or bridged mono operation. A rear-panel 12V trigger interfaces with all popular remote-control and surround sound processor devices for seamless integration into modern systems. As expected from the world's largest producer of professional power amps with an unparalleled reputation for reliability and customer support, the SRA series amplifiers deliver performance you can count on. FEATURES Active inrush limitingwill not blow circuit breakers at turn-on A hum-free noise floor and ultra low distortion Optional DSP modules for enhanced signal control Short circuit, DC, subsonic, and thermal overload protection Tamper proof gain control security cover LED indicators for power, signal, and clip Detachable rack ears included Only 22 lb. net (10 kg) for easy racking and shipping Selectable subsonic filters: off, 20 Hz, or 50 Hz RCA inputs 12V DC control trigger Quiet variable speed fan 3-year warranty plus optional 3-year extension available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted January 1, 2004 Author Share Posted January 1, 2004 Thanks for the input everyone - it is really helping. However: $300 I think you guys might be recommending amps up over a grand. I can't spend that much. If you know of some good amps that are ~$300, let me know. Thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 here you go! (from musicians friend) QSC RMX 850 Power Amp Product (#481563) $299.99 Clean, dynamic power and reliability pros depend on. QSC has combined their rugged high-output designs with the latest circuit technology to deliver unmatched performance at a breakthrough price. The RMX amps require only 2 rack spaces and feature 1/4" TRS, XLR, and barrier strip balance inputs; binding post and Neutrik Speakon® outputs; front-mounted gain controls for easy access; independent and defeatable clip limiters; selectable low-frequency filters (30Hz or 50Hz) that protect speakers and increase headroom; signal and clip LED indicators; independent DC and thermal overload protection on each channel; variable-speed fan. The RMX850 delivers per channel: 200W at 8 ohms, 300W at 4 ohms, 430W at 2 ohms. Bridge mono: 600W at 8 ohms, 830W at 4 ohms. 3-year warranty. Features: Unmatched performance at a breakthrough price Require 2 rack spaces 1/4" TRS, XLR, and barrier strip balanced inputs Binding post and Neutrik Speakon outputs Front-mounted gain controls for easy access Independent and defeatable clip limiters Selectable low-frequency filters (30Hz or 50Hz) Signal and clip LED indicators Independent DC and thermal overload protection Variable speed fan Stereo: 200W at 8 ohms Stereo: 300W at 4 ohms Stereo: 430W at 2 ohms 3-year warranty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 or.... http://store.yahoo.com/aicons/crauamxlpoam1.html $264.99 (that is the price for the xls402) Availability: Usually ships the next business day. Crown XLS402 FREE GROUND SHIPPING Audio Power Amplifiers Free Shipping XLS-402Regular price: $519.00Sale price: $264.99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khorn58 Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 My vote is for a good used crown psa2 I have 2 that I use one for rec.. studio power amp and one for home use. The psa2 crown is real smooth with horns it hold it own aganst my threshold amp and scott tube amps. i have never noticed any sound coming from the fans when playing music they are (if working right) very very quite. The can be bought on ebay cheap. Back in the day they were the top choice for recoding studios over such amps as mcintosh. I think they may be the best used amp vaule on the planet. when bridged mono they can put out a lot of power and are rated down to 2 ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 1, 2004 Share Posted January 1, 2004 if you are considering used, there are many more options in your price range.... just a word of caution.... alot of times someone is selling an amp because something is wrong with it..... maybe it has a hum, cuts out at high volumes, or has something else "not right"..... after having so-so luck in buying amps and other stuff from ebay, i decided that i wasn't going to buy anyone else's problems anymore..... personally, i love the idea of a brand new piece of equipment with that warranty!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted January 2, 2004 Author Share Posted January 2, 2004 I will not buy used unless I get something at a pawn shop for $50 or $100 - it's not worth the risk for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robB Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 ---------------- On 12/29/2003 5:25:45 PM kenratboy wrote: I am looking to replace my dead Parts Express plate amp with a new EQ (ART 351 looks cool) and amp. I know Crown and QSC are both good companies and both make $300 amps I like (600-800 watts 8 ohms bridged) - however, do you think one brand is better overall? I am partial to Crown, as they are part of Harman International, and all the dealings I have had with them (JBL, JBL Pro, Harman Kardon, and AKG) have been EXCELLENT (customer service was AWESOME.) Would a new (I want new, but I will be hitting the pawn shops soon...) Crown amp be good? I am looking at the XLS 402 for $300 from Musicians Friend. It is no frills, and thats what I want. $100 for the ART 351 EQ (has a good high pass on it) $330 for the Crown XLS 402 (800 watts) Sound good? As it is, I have no subwoofer right now ---------------- Hi Ken its been a while...happy New year The QSC or the Crown are excellent choices Sonically they are very close..QSC is faster..i think. I can vouch for the crown because ive used many of the them over the yrs,. and can speak for their Cement truck reliablity. Especially earlier on ,with racks of DC-300a and D150A BUT... ANother good amp for a sub is a Bryston 4b Cheers Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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