maxg Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 Having realised that my system use is 98% listening to music and 2% watching movies I decided to forgo the compromise of a surround sound system in favour of a plain vanilla stereo sound. So I sold the Yamaha 595a, the Rotel power amp (1080 - 2 channel - for stereo listening) and the KSW 10 sub and demoted the Denon 3000 from a DVD/CD transport to a DVD only unit. I purchased an Accuphase E211 for amplification and a Marantz CD6000 as a stopgap till SACD/DVDa sorts itself out. These are mated to a pair of Heresy 2's - no centre channel, no sub, no surrounds. Here's the funny thing. I watched a movie yesterday and enjoyed it more than I ever did with the surround sound setup. Why? In simple terms I realised that whilst the effects of a movie, blasts from the sub - helicopters overhead via the surrounds - discreet voice channel, are missing I gain in the most important aspect - the music. Well before sound effects gained the importance they have today in movies music was, and still is, used to generate atmosphere. (How frightening is the shower scene in Psycho without the sound track?) Musically my system is so far ahead of any surround sound system in my experience it more than compensates for the lack of punch of the odd explosion here and there. Vanilla is such a wonderful underrated flavour sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 Amen.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 Same exact expeirence, the same exact thing! I did the same as you, i think the surround is more waste of time and money!! Gave up my surround, about a year ago, after investing like 4 grand into it! I only used it once or twice a year! 4 cornwalls, on 2 channel, is better than the surround! Why does the center channel even have a woofer, its nothing but voice, they should make the center mid horn loaded only! Make it smaller, then they could match other speakers easier! The rears only kick in, on some parts of the movie, like echos or? Other than that they do nothing also! 2 channel its all the same output, all even sound! Yea, the surround fad, didnt last long with me! Have fun Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelliott100 Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 If you're ONLY hearing voices from your center channel and occasional sounds from the rears......you're watching the wrong movies!!!! The center channel is the most active speaker in my surround setup and the rears are very frequently active. At least with action movies. I suppose if you watch less action oriented films, surround would be a bit underwhelming. All of my music listening is two channel but I wouldn't give up my movie surround for anything. To each his own! ------------------ --Elliott-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 Thats fine, just an opinion, i do like music more than tv around here! My love for music is intense! Just didnt use the theater very much, got tired of dusting it off! I think the next time i might do it again, ill go a different way, i almost have enough here to do it again, ill use a decoder, not a pro logic reciever, id bet thats what the biggest problem with it was! I have 2 amps laying around here, id use one for rear, one for front, and ? for center LOL!! Love 2 channel Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montigue Posted June 13, 2001 Share Posted June 13, 2001 I'm with you jelliott100, I love to watch movies with my surround system. I would get rid of my wife before I got rid of my Klipsch surround system LOL...I love music as well, like all A/V pro logic receiver's my HK receiver has 2,3,5&6 channel's. 2 channel stereo is just too limited for me. Monty ___________________ 36" Sony Wega flat screen Harman Kardon AVR65 digital receiver Klipsch KG 5.2 (main) Klipsch KLF C-7 (center) Klipsch KG 1.5 (rear) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 How true Max, I'm presently making the jump from 2 channel to 6 channel, just waiting on my La Scala's. Yes, I miss the wonderful love my Adcom GFA-585 Limited Edition amp made to my Khorns in 2 channel Or just hook up my now exwife's Hersey II's through and Adcom speaker selector box and quad if I wanted. Oh well, I'll let you know how the HT goes when my LaScala's® get here in August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 I've re-read the original post a couple of times and I guess I'm missing something..... Why are (have) you gotten rid of your surround stuff? I mean, there's this little button on my Denon remote called 2-ch. stereo. Push it and presto, I get vanilla stereo. Heck, I can even turn off my sub. Did your previous system not allow for you to turn off your surround? Personally, that's what I like about my system - it's flexibility. If I wanna listen to vanilla stereo, I can. If I want explosions and helicopter fly-bys and earthquakes that piss off the neighbors, I can have that too. Heck I can even enjoy 5-ch stereo. Anyhow, just curious..... Tom Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 Another two channel fan here. Music sounds great, only two speakers (Cornwalls) in the room, TV and movies sound fine (I'm not a big TV or movie fan anyway). Klispchguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 I wouldn't sell off the extra amps and speakers just yet, guys; multi-channel is the future of recorded music, at least imho. Now if the suits running the record companies would get with the program. And if Sony, Philips and Mastushita could get together and produce universal players... ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelliott100 Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 I will say, there is a vast difference between prologic and today's Dolby Digital 5.1 stuff. Simply no comparison. It's not, in the least bit, subtle. But again, if you're not watching things like the Matrix or Terminator or something, I can 100% see that 2 channel would be enough. There have several occasions where, when watching a "normal" movie, I had left the receiver in stereo mode from a previous session of music listening. About half-way through the movie I happen to look down at the receiver and see what mode it's in. Until then, I didn't even realize I wasn't in surround mode. As for multichannel music. I'm not certain if I'm on board with it yet or not. I've listened to a few recordings where, the rear channels were used only to add the ambience of the hall. I've thoroughly enjoyed those, but when they turn it into a gimmick where the instruments are coming from all around you. No thanks. Besides, part of the fun of two channel is hearing things coming out of thin air where there IS no speaker at all. It's like having a magic show in your living room. ------------------ --Elliott-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 Amen and pass the headphones! NO MUSIC SOURCES IN THE SURROUNDS!!!s>...OR ELSE YOU CAN KEEP ALL YOUR TOYS, AND I'LL JUST STAY A TWO-CHANNEL DUDE.s> ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacKlipsch Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 I'm a 4 track man myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montigue Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 I think it would be cool if I had a 7 speaker setup to where I could seperate all the different musical instrument's. I Would have the voices coming from the center speaker. The lead gutair on the L/front, the rythm guitar from the R/front. I would have the drums come out of the rear speaker's. The sub would be deticaded for bass only of course. And any extra instruments would come out of the other 2 small speakers. I mean think about it for a minute. It would be like having the band playing around you with you in the middle. If it could be done right I think even guys hard to please like yourself's would even like it. Surround sound RULES! ( with Klipsch speaker's of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bensilb Posted June 14, 2001 Share Posted June 14, 2001 I like the flexibility of my HT system. When I want to listen to music, I shut off all the effects and it sounds great. I also love watching movies in DD and DTS. But hey I guess thats why there is not just one model receiver amp...diversity. The wide range available allows everyone to be happy. Right? ------------------ Sony Trinitron 27" TV Yamaha RX-V1000 JVC HR-S3800 Super VHS VCR Sony DVP-S530D DVD Player Sony Tape Sony CDP-CE345 Cd player RF-3 RC-3 Synergy Rear surounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted June 15, 2001 Author Share Posted June 15, 2001 "Why are (have) you gotten rid of your surround stuff? I mean, there's this little button on my Denon remote called 2-ch. stereo. Push it and presto, I get vanilla stereo. Heck, I can even turn off my sub. Did your previous system not allow for you to turn off your surround?"In a word - compromise. I fund that the quality of the stereo sound I was getting out of my amp was inadequate. I originally tried to fix the problem by adding a Rotel 2 channel power amp (1080) to the Yamaha 595a I was using. Whilst this made a huge difference to the quality it simply wasnt enough. Highs were so bright at times it was painful and ruining my enjoyment of the music. When I moved to an Accuphase integrated amp the quality leap was so dramatic the disposal of the 5.1 / DTs setup was automatic. Maybe your Denon plays stereo better than my Yamaha did, I dont know, but I would be surprised if it matched the accuphase. "Personally, that's what I like about my system - it's flexibility. If I wanna listen to vanilla stereo, I can. If I want explosions and helicopter fly-bys and earthquakes that piss off the neighbors, I can have that too. Heck I can even enjoy 5-ch stereo." I too wanted that flexibility. It was only after having the system for 2 years that I realised that for me flexibility was no substitute for quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelliott100 Posted June 15, 2001 Share Posted June 15, 2001 Hey, Max. How do have your system set up. Room size? Distance from you to speakers/between speakers. Do you have your HII's on stands? How far off the side and rear walls do you have them. Just curious. I have a pair (actually 2 pair, now) of Heresy II's and have been experimenting alot with placement. I'd be interested to hear how you have things set up. ------------------ --Elliott-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted June 15, 2001 Author Share Posted June 15, 2001 "Hey, Max. How do have your system set up. Room size? Distance from you to speakers/between speakers. Do you have your HII's on stands? How far off the side and rear walls do you have them." OK- - room is 5 metres (16 ft) by 6 metres (19 Ft). Off to one side is the Kitchen (4*4 metres - 13 * 13 ft) joined through a sliding wooden door with a 2.5 metre (7-8ft) width. Ceilings are 2m50 (8 ft). the system sits along one wall with a door in one corner and a fireplace in the other. Opposite is a double sliding glass door leading onto the patio and the main front door off to one side. Slightly to the side of the entrance and a short distance into the room is a pillar supporting the ceiling (this is getting complicated isnt it). All solid concrete construction with Marble floors. In the middle of the room are 2 leather recliners, mine is in the sweet spot. I sit about 3 metres (10 feet) away from the speakers (on the centre line) with the speakers 2 metres 60 (8 feet) apart towed in with one pointing directly at me and the other slightly less towed in so it points almost at me (to correct the imbalance in the room's accoustics - 2 weeks play to get it right). The speakers sit on top of 2 cabinets about 1 metre 10 (4 feet) from the floor. This height puts the woofer slightly above my ear level when I recline so I have used coffee mats under the backs to angle the speakers down rather than up. This works great (I can get away with it because the speaker bass output is not the strongest in the world). The speakers are 30 cm (1 foot) form the back wall and about 2 metres (6ft 6) from each side wall. Surprisingly given the layout of the room the accoustics are remarkably good (especially with the amount of furiture in there. Other than the aforementioned recliners there are 2 arm chairs off to the right as I look at the system from the recliner and a 3 seater settee along the wall in front of the fireplace (I should draw this for you). Various objet d'art along the sides and lots of paintings on the walls. During winter the carpets are down and sound is superb, during summer there is some reflection and the background noise of the air-conditioner to contend with. At all times the sound is best with the wooden kitchen door closed. "I have a pair (actually 2 pair, now) of Heresy II's and have been experimenting alot with placement. I'd be interested to hear how you have things set up." Oh boy - 4 speakers to setup. That could take some time. Enjoy the playing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discorules Posted June 15, 2001 Share Posted June 15, 2001 This discussion reminds me of some the pro and con arguments I use to hear about quad sound in the '70s. Having lived through that, I still prefer listening to music in stereo. I'm ok with home theater within reason. I have just a basic dolby stereo and really don't plan any heavy investment in that direction. The best place for theater effects are still at the theater in my opinion. If it's a good movie, I'll just plunk down the 35 bucks and enjoy the experience there. Big movie sound effects have to be accompanied by movie size screens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete C Posted June 15, 2001 Share Posted June 15, 2001 quote: If it's a good movie, I'll just plunk down the 35 bucks and enjoy the experience there. Big movie sound effects have to be accompanied by movie size screens. Unless you live in the backwoods. All we get are googlplex theaters with screens slightly larger than at home and run by high school students. I got tired of asking them to focus the projector or turn up the volume so I don't hear the commentary from other viewers who think they are at home alone. The surround speakers sound like tin and are distracting. Films shown the third day are already full of dust and hair. Etc., Etc., Etc. HT Forever! This message has been edited by Pete C on 06-15-2001 at 07:50 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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