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The difference between Liberals, Conservatives, and Southerners...


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mdeneen, I have met plenty of people who would not jump in and help, if you are truly honest with yourself so have you. Most peoples' sense of self preservation will not permit them to jump in and help. I have seen men I thought were made of the strongest stuff freeze in the door of a helicopter. I have heard their voices crack with fear on the radio. If these men can have moments like this then I promise MOST people could NOT help at the point of decision. Gunman45 probably knows of what I speak and there may be others out there as well. Every last one of us would like to believe that we would step in. Be the Hero. Save the Day. How many such crimes are committed each day and witnessed by others? How many tolerate the bully in the park before someone picks up a stick. We will never know.

It is not just an American fantasy to be the Hero, the Victorious, the Cowboy. This fantasy goes deeper, hidden in the mists of time if you will. MAN is wild at heart. Sitting in his office cubicle and being nice and good and proper goes against his very nature. He should and would be out having some great adventure. Slaying the DRAGON, rescueing the Damsel in distress. This is what HE longs for. I cannot imagine life with out great struggle. Whether it be the elements,, or the Hunt or conquering the New World. It goes to the core in a man, if you are male then you know of what I speak.

In your last post you take responsibility for Foreign Policy in the Middle East. I am assuming that you are American, we have already established that you are of voting age. Perhaps you don't particpate in politics since that would put you in the turret of a tank. Please accept my apology now,that was quite flippant, I couldn't resist.

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On 1/7/2004 7:32:47 PM boomac wrote:

I would help any man getting a beating whether he was rich or poor, liberal or conservative, from SC or PA, any color, of any race or of any national origin. I would even help a poor bugger that owned Bose Speakers. It seems to me that America is all about helping people in need. Some Americans do it through their actions and others try to do it through academic BS but most people care and try. BTW, this thread is rapidly going down hill.


I concur, if you dont watch out for your neighbor they certainly wont watch out for you.

I say that just as I have finished shoveling my elderly neighbors snow from their sidewalk. Guess Im feeling full of myself.


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In case you have not already enjoyed this accurate observation:

"Our National Dialogue on Terrorism:

Why do they hate us?

They hate us because theyre evil.

Thats it, huh? Thats the entire story?

Yes. Theyre evil. And they hate us because of our freedoms.

They hate us because of our freedoms?

But really because theyre evil.

I know theyre evil. I was just thinking that maybe if we understood what specifically seemed to trigger the

Why are you apologizing for the terrorists?

Im not. Theyre evil. You have no quarrel there. Its just that maybe if we understoo

Why are you on the terrorists side?

Im not! I hate the terrorists. I was just saying we might be able to prevent the next

Three thousand Americans dead. How can you defend al-Qaeda?

Believe me, I was not defending them. What they did was horrific and inexcusable. Theyre evil. I was just

Then why are you apologizing for them?

Im not. Im trying to say that maybe there are lessons we can

Why do you hate America?"

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Have you ever heard the song "Christmas in the Trenches," by John McCutcheon? It is below:

Christmas in the Trenches

(John McCutcheon)

My name is Francis Tolliver, I come from Liverpool.

Two years ago the war was waiting for me after school.

To Belgium and to Flanders, to Germany to here

I fought for King and country I love dear.

'Twas Christmas in the trenches, where the frost so bitter hung,

The frozen fields of France were still, no Christmas song was sung

Our families back in England were toasting us that day

Their brave and glorious lads so far away.

I was lying with my messmate on the cold and rocky ground

When across the lines of battle came a most peculiar sound

Says I, ``Now listen up, me boys!' each soldier strained to hear

As one young German voice sang out so clear.

``He's singing bloody well, you know!' my partner says to me

Soon, one by one, each German voice joined in harmony

The cannons rested silent, the gas clouds rolled no more

As Christmas brought us respite from the war

As soon as they were finished and a reverent pause was spent

``God Rest Ye Merry, Gentlemen' struck up some lads from Kent

The next they sang was ``Stille Nacht.' ``Tis `Silent Night',' says I

And in two tongues one song filled up that sky

``There's someone coming toward us!' the front line sentry cried

All sights were fixed on one long figure trudging from their side

His truce flag, like a Christmas star, shown on that plain so bright

As he, bravely, strode unarmed into the night

Soon one by one on either side walked into No Man's Land

With neither gun nor bayonet we met there hand to hand

We shared some secret brandy and we wished each other well

And in a flare-lit soccer game we gave 'em hell

We traded chocolates, cigarettes, and photographs from home

These sons and fathers far away from families of their own

Young Sanders played his squeezebox and they had a violin

This curious and unlikely band of men

Soon daylight stole upon us and France was France once more

With sad farewells we each prepared to settle back to war

But the question haunted every heart that lived that wonderous night

``Whose family have I fixed within my sights?'

'Twas Christmas in the trenches where the frost, so bitter hung

The frozen fields of France were warmed as songs of peace were sung

For the walls they'd kept between us to exact the work of war

Had been crumbled and were gone forevermore

My name is Francis Tolliver, in Liverpool I dwell

Each Christmas come since World War I, I've learned its lessons well

That the ones who call the shots won't be among the dead and lame

And on each end of the rifle we're the same


And my wife sent me this today. The author is a friend of a friend. It is a story about guns ... and more:


Goodnight again, work comes too early.


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She's not a girl who misses much

do do do do do do, oh yeah

She's well acquainted with the touch of the velvet hand like a lizard on a window pane.

The man in the crowd with the multi-colored mirrors on his hobnail boots.

Lying with his eyes while his hands are busy working overtime.

A soap impression of his wife which he ate and donated to the National Trust.

I need a fix 'cause I'm going down

down to the bits that I left uptown

I need a fix 'cause I'm going down

Mother Superior jump the gun

Mother Superior jump the gun

Mother Superior jump the gun

Mother Superior jump the gun

Happiness is a warm gun (bang bang shoot shoot)

Happiness is a warm gun, mama (bang bang shoot shoot)

When I hold you in my arms (oh, yeah)

And I feel my finger on your trigger (oh, yeah)

I know nobody can do me no harm (oh, yeah)

Because, (happiness) is a warm gun, mama (bang bang shoot shoot)

Happiness is a warm gun, yes it is (bang bang shoot shoot)

Happiness is a warm, yes it is, gun

Happiness (bang bang shoot shoot)

Well don't you know that happiness (happiness) is a warm gun, (is a warm gun, yeah).

(written by: Lennon/McCartney)

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Excerpt from:


Established in the spring of 1997

1997....a plan for action drawn up way before 9/11

Dick Cheney's plan to increase his wealth and that of his buddies at our expense, and at the expense of any dream of world peace.

As the 20 th century draws to a close, the United States stands as the worlds most preeminent power. Having led the West to victory in the Cold War, America faces an opportunity and a challenge: Does the United States have the vision to build upon the achievement of past decades? Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests? a military that is strong and ready to meet both present and future challenges; a foreign policy that boldly and purposefully promotes American principles abroad; and national leadership that accepts the United States global responsibilities.


later, around page 51:


To preserve American military preeminence in the coming decades, the Department of Defense must move more aggressively to experiment with new technologies and operational concepts, and seek to exploit the emerging revolution in military affairs. Information technologies,

in particular, are becoming more prevalent and significant components of modern military systems. These information tech-nologies are having the same kind of trans-forming

effects on military affairs as they are having in the larger world. The effects of this military transformation will have

profound implications for how wars are fought, what kinds of weapons will dominate the battlefield and, inevitably,

which nations enjoy military preeminence. The United States enjoys every prospect of leading this transformation. Indeed, it

was the improvements in capabilities acquired during the American defense build-up of the 1980s that hinted at and then

confirmed, during Operation Desert Storm, that a revolution in military affairs was at hand. At the same time, the process of

military transformation will present opportunities for Americas adversaries to develop new capabilities that in turn will

create new challenges for U.S. military

preeminence. Moreover, the Pentagon, constrained by limited budgets and pressing current missions, has seen funding for experi-mentation and transformation crowded out in recent years. Spending on military research and development has been reduced dramatically over the past decade. Indeed, during the mid-1980s, when the Defense Department was in the midst of the Reagan buildup which was primarily an effort to

expand existing forces and field traditional weapons systems, research spending represented 20 percent of total Pentagon

budgets. By contrast, todays research and development accounts total only 8 percent of defense spending. And even this reduced total is primarily for upgrades of current weapons. Without increased spending on basic research and development the United States will be unable to exploit the RMA

and preserve its technological edge on future battlefields. Any serious effort at transformation must occur within the larger framework of U.S. national security strategy, military missions and defense budgets. The United States cannot simply declare a strategic pause while experimenting with new technologies and operational concepts. Nor can it choose to pursue a

transformation strategy that would decouple American and allied interests. A transformation strategy that solely pursued capabilities for projecting force from the United States, for example, and sacrificed forward basing and presence,

would be at odds with larger American policy goals and would trouble American allies. Further, the process of transformation,

even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event like a

new Pearl Harbor.


What a coincidence! Oh my!

Only months after GW Bush got manipulated into the office of President and Commander and Chief....we just happen to have such a new Pearl Harbor... how convenient......

kind of makes the Bush family ties to the Bin Laden family just a little bit suspect......if you have any imagination at all......

The Players

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"I wonder what they said about Klinton and his lies before a grand jury and ensuing disbarment? blah blah...."

Clinton lying about a blow job and Bush's lies that are costing the lives of hundreds of American sons and daughters and tens of thousands of civilians in foreign lands (and still counting)....what a comparison! What a comparison! Don't tell me Americans are not messed up about sex.

Murder and Violence=no big deal. Blow job=big deal.

right, and Dick Cheney is not a criminal.....

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What I don't get about threads like these is, do you guys actually think someone is going to change their mind after reading any of this?

Really...I'm not even going to start on which way I lean, but come on...Each side has beliefs, no amount of arguing on a forum is going to make the other go... "Gee golly, I guess that does make sense!"

They are called beliefs, because they are just that. It is not a fact. You can't say for a fact, this is correct. Having guns/banning guns/shooting guns , there is no fact. Anyone who tries to pull some kind of statistics (either way) into a fact is just interpreting data, and it means nothing to either side.

So, why don't you all just give up, and get back to whats important...and that is...

How can anyone listen to a freaking amp with only 3.5 watts? They must be f*ing stupid! I mean, you *cannot* get realistic dynamics out of that, I don't care how small your room is!

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Clipped and Shorn:

You have no proof that President Bush is lying. No proof!

Disagree with his policy, yes you may. It dosn't matter how you use power to get what you want. If you abuse it you are a lying - freaking - piece of you know what. You can hold any opinion you want and I will defend your right to it but I'll be darned if I'll defend your right to talk out of your vertical cheeks.

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I'm not going back to read 12 pages but I think Skeptic probably summed it up nicely.9.gif I'm with him! Come on. Who else wants to jump on the bandwagon? 3.5 watts? What could anybody be thinking!!!!!

BTW - Good point Boomac. Everyone knows where I stand here so there's no use jumping in at this point (unless that's what I just did).

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Ownership of firearms should NOT be an automatic right of every non-felon adult in the the USA. I am all for making sure someone KNOWS HOW TO HANDLE a gun before letting them own one. Sorta like not allowing someone to buy a new pickup and drive it down the road without being checked out first. I am a die-hard left-leaning Democrat who will NEVER vote Republican EVER and I own a couple of guns (a Glock and a 12-guage pump). You know, for when the revolution comes . . .

Here's my theory about Bush and Bin Laden. I think our spooks have him in a cage somewhere and I think he'll be "captured" at some opportune time. How about mid to late October?

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Allen, if that happens, I'll never vote Republican again. That is, unless I find out that you snuck over there, with the Glock on your hip and the 12 guage over your shoulder, and got the old bugger at a "democratically" appropriate time.

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Well I'm a Republican (1) who became a Democrat after the Nixon Fiasco(2) who became a Republican after the Carter fiasco(3).

1) I had aN AUH2O64 bumper sticker in my room when I was seventeen.

2) I would have loved to see Scoop Jackson President

3) Ronald Reagan resold me.

Although I had to retire a bit more than a year ago, an old customer called me this afternoon and said he had something for me amd would come over and bring it. That scared my wife so I put my little Colt Mustang in my pocket to reassure her. An older man came over with something in his hand. We exchanged pleasantries and he said that when he used to come to the garage he would look in my office and see my picture of President Reagan on my wall and when he saw " this thing" he immediatly thought of me. He gave me a 2004 Calander from the Reagan Library. I thought that was a nice thing to do for me since I no longer service his cars.


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