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To Drywall or not to Drywall...?


JBryan

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I've had electricians in my basement! I finally was able to get rid of them but not without considerable damage to my walls (and carpet and ceiling tiles...). The aftermath has left me with options. Should I repair the mess and move on or should I take the opportunity to redo my basement?

To preface, the basement is L-shaped 30' x 26' on the long walls with 7.5' acoustic-tiled ceilings. The listening area is situated in an area approx. 20' x 16' with the stairs along the listening wall. The Khorns and listening position are in a 14' equidistant triangle with the speakers pointing at the listener. The walls are made of 1/2" wood paneling attached to studs approx. 4' from the cinderblock outside wall. The floors are concrete covered with foam padding and carpet.

Should I pull the paneling and replace it with drywall? Should I insulate between the studs or leave the paneling in place and put drywall over it? Is there a benefit to leaving the paneling in place over installing drywall? What are the considerations and other options involved in this decision?

Thanks for the help and advise and I'm sure there'll be other questions as I work my way through the archives. -Bryan

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I seems to me that either dry wall or panelling are pretty much the same as far as acoustics. Both being good reflectors. Putting fiberglass behind either is not going to help in that department.

I've read some things about preventing sound transmission between adjacent rooms. There the walls have to be on their own set of studs. That way one wall doesn't transmit sound forces to the other through the studs. But you don't have that issue.

My uneducated thought is that you should investigate some panelling which is absortive. Probably too expensive but this depends on your pocketbook.

Gil

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I think you'll find that sound travels no matter how you build your walls. Doing fancy stuff with the studs is NOT going to stop the sound from traveling. Insulating between the wall finishings will muffle it and really cut it down but will not stop it. I personally would drywall as it leaves more options open to you for finishing then paneling would and looks alot better. There really are no nice looking panels..... because they look like panels. Drywall is alot smoother and cleaner finished. It can also be fixed no matter what happens. My 2 cents.

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Thanks Guys,

I realize that the room isn't big enough to properly accommodate the Khorns and there's the rub. I'd like to install drywall and spruce up the place a bit but I also think that with the drywall, I may reduce the size of the room as far as the speakers are concerned. As I understand it, the paneling is all but invisible to the Khorns' lower frequencies. The waves pass through the wood and bounce off the masonry with moderate absorbtion so the speakers "see" most of the basement instead of just the smaller listening area. I'm especially concerned with the wall immediately behind the sitting position (back of the sofa) as I'd imagine that I'd get the worst reflection there and that can't be good. When I'm feeling tweaky, I use a +3" thick panel (4'x5') filled with various absorbtion materials behind a tapestry but the benefits (or drawbacks) aren't very apparent.

I'd really like to find a way to test the effects in the room before I commit to drywall. I'm happy with the set up such as it is but I'm just as sure that there's plenty of opportunities and options for improvement.

Thanks for the advise, -Bryan

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My pet HT/two-channel project is in the basement. We have block walls between our townhouses. In the finishing, I used doubled 1/2" sheets of sheetrock on top of studs turned on their flat side against a common block wall. Between the turned studs I put foam sheeting 1 1/2" thick. That makes a total of 2.5" of sound absorption on the shared wall. I also insulated between the 1st floor joists. My neighbor claims he cannot hear my system at all. However, now my problem is that I need sound absorption on the walls to deaden the room. I painted with a semi gloss, which hardened the surfaces making the room very live. If you leave the sheetrock unpainted, it makes for better sound absorption. But it is ugly. If you want to really go goofy, check out www.quietsolution.com.

This stuff is fun isn't it?9.gif

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First and foremost would be , hows the room sound ???

Don't start fixing till your aware of what problem your trying to deal with.

The ultimate room would be constructed from the ISO-WALL System, this is a constraint layering system used for sound studios and pro-theater rooms.

Use your internet search engine and type iso-wall, you'll find a few links to the same page.

One thing i would never have again is a drop ceiling in the same room as k-horns. I can bounce the tile right out of its tracking and vibration kills the bass response.

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So far so good.

Is the goal here to seal off the room from the rest of the house? I wonder if that may actually work against me in that the Khorns like big spaces and given the room's smallish dimensions, would it be a good thing to make it smaller? I used to have a pr of B&W 801s and they didn't work in the room at all - way too much bass bloat. As it is, I can play the system quite loudly without hearing it outside or upstairs (too much) so sound-proofing isn't necessary unless it really benefits the sound IN the listening area. Just wanted a bit of clarification - Thanks.

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the way the bass bin on the khorn works, you're going to want them tucked into sturdy hard walls, so that the wall can act as part of the bass horn the way it was intended...

as for the rest of the room, i'll think you'll still want to "keep the bass inside" because free air response of lower frequencies is a lot worse than on a wall, in a corner, or in a room. in other words, having walls that low frequencies don't see will in fact hurt the bass response. at the same time, a larger space often reduces room nodes and things like that.

as some1 else mentioned, what problems do you already have in your room? It'd be best to go from there to see what choices might be able to address that, or to avoid making it worse.

But from all i've read and the understanding i have of your room (which isn't very good...), i'd say go with drywall as I've always found it to sound better.

If artto pops his head into this thread, he'd be the guy to ask...he's very knowledgeable regarding room acoustics.

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Thanks! I am leaning toward putting up the drywall and in addition to the advise I've received already, a little direction from Artto would be most welcome. The Khorns sound very open and airy in the room but I've always wanted the bass to be a bit tighter and more pronounced (then again - who doesn't).

If isolating the room is the ideal then I really like Klipschfoot's idea of setting the studs on their side and doubling up on the drywall sheets - I just hope that the carpet will fit. I installed the acoustic tiles on the ceiling and made sure that they were well-secured and didn't vibrate or buzz. The wall behind the sofa is just paneling over studs and is by far the "loosest" wall. I should drywall that area regardless.

Does anyone here know a good way to test the room? Thanks again - Bryan

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turn on some music and listen? seriously though, play some of the music you're most familiar with and enjoy and that's the best way to test your room.

You can also put test tones on a CD and get an SPL meter and measure the frequency response of the room and all that...it can often be a helpful tool in finding problem frequencies. It can also be misleading too though.

Btw, what kind of floor do you have?

artto built a room around the K-Horn and if you look at some older posts in this forum, you'll find a long thread about it...

edit: oh booger it, here's the link 2.gif

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=28220&sessionID={067B0856-BBE3-4EFE-9891-E224F8A30747}

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Ive been in Artto's room. It is amazing, I suppose being an Archetect helps10.gif

What Artto has for corners is Cement block the height of the Khorns, with drywall over, I think he mentioned deeper than average footings separate from the rest of the house under his Khorns, with 2x10 comming up from the footings that he screws the Khrons directly into.(not just pushed into the corners like the rest of us)

I wish I would have seen Arttos set up before I built my house. I thought I was smart having my builder put 2x4 cross beams into my walls to make them tighter. I then put extra cross beams on the outside of my wall after the fact. Even with my over reinforced wall it vibrates like a Son of a B. but the bass sounds a lot better than in my last house.

Morale of the story, you want a nice STRONG corner to put your bass bin into.

JM

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  • 3 weeks later...

The trick is to come up with the right combination of room demensions, speaker placement and reflection, absortion and diffusion treatments and bass traps if necessary for standing waves. Takes some research on the net and a lot of experiementation.

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  • 3 weeks later...

----------------

On 1/9/2004 1:15:45 AM iXtreme wrote:

I think you'll find that sound travels no matter how you build your walls. Doing fancy stuff with the studs is NOT going to stop the sound from traveling. Insulating between the wall finishings will muffle it and really cut it down but will not stop it. I personally would drywall as it leaves more options open to you for finishing then paneling would and looks alot better. There really are no nice looking panels..... because they look like panels. Drywall is alot smoother and cleaner finished. It can also be fixed no matter what happens. My 2 cents.

----------------

I've done a little rehab work at a studio here in cincinnati and I respectfully disagree. With the street being 12 feet from the front of the building there were issues!

Mass helps as does seperation. I forget who in the thread suggested seperation but they were right. Using z-bar hangers from the rafters and wall studs will kill sound, and cheap. Using sound insulation works better than strictly insulation.Seperating walls would work wonder also. Using two layers of 1/2 inch drywall is great stuff too! There are books on building soundproof walls and such at your public library or look online. You have lots of options. Randy

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----------------

On 1/9/2004 9:56:47 PM Klipschfoot wrote:

My pet HT/two-channel project is in the basement. We have block walls between our townhouses. In the finishing, I used doubled 1/2" sheets of sheetrock on top of studs turned on their flat side against a common block wall. Between the turned studs I put foam sheeting 1 1/2" thick. That makes a total of 2.5" of sound absorption on the shared wall. I also insulated between the 1st floor joists. My neighbor claims he cannot hear my system at all. However, now my problem is that I need sound absorption on the walls to deaden the room. I painted with a semi gloss, which hardened the surfaces making the room very live. If you leave the sheetrock unpainted, it makes for better sound absorption. But it is ugly. If you want to really go goofy, check out www.quietsolution.com.

This stuff is fun isn't it?
9.gif

----------------

HOw about a stucco finish on the wall for absorbtion and reflection? You'd get the benefit of drywall and a diffuse texture?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm an ex-sound engineer and remodeling contractor. Here's my .02, and I'm going to be going through the same thing in my new home with block walls in the basement party room with my Cornwalls.

First- READ THIS SITE for info regarding standing waves, absorbtiion of various surfaces, and how to CONTROL the sound. I'm going to build the bass traps like the guy suggests and leave my concrete walls painted.

You are correct in that your heavy paneling acts about the same as drywall. If you resurface the walls, DO NOT put loose fibreglass batt insulation where it can come into contact with block or poured concrete walls because it will pick up moisture and get funky in time. It will help a bit with sound transmission between interior rooms however. To reduce transmission to the first floor, pull down the cheap 'acoustic' tile and hang new drywall using resilient channels (a metal bracket) to isolate it. Remember to do ALL WIRING prior to drywalling the ceiling. 2x4 acoustical tile is no good, because even the heavier tile and track systems vibrate and buzz when you get the system really rocking.

Hope this helps!

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If you decide to go drywall, take the paneling off first as it may buzz. Also GLUE and SCREW the drywall to the studs, as nails will not suffice, particularly in the Khorn zone. Use something like PL200 in caulking gun tubes and apply a continuous thin bead to all studs prior to slapping the drywall on.

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