TBrennan Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I've been out looking at digital TVs, HD ready and all that, and they look crummy. Every one I've seen, in showrooms and in homes, is covered in a haze of digital distortion and noise. This when watching DVDs and LDs. The same TVs look much better with HD programming. Now seeing as I've absolutely no interest in watching Who's The Boss in HD it looks like I might as well stick with my analog TV. Or am I missing something? I've looked at many digital TVs, some that were setup with Video Essentials. Sony LCDs, Samsung DLPs, Hitachi, Mitsubishi and Toshiba CRT; all look like Hell to me. What's going on? Am I missing something or are we being sold a bill of goods? Christ, I went out today with money burning a hole in my pocket and came home with no new TV, that's how bad they looked; Hell I was hoping to find one that looked good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Tom, there really is a lot of variability in the products out there. RPTV, projectors, et al. ... there are shortcomings to be reckoned with. I went with a Panasonic plasma TV because the prices have fallen a long way and they're the best you can get, color-wise, for the money. Not cheap, but gorgeous color. Connected to a nice Progressive Scan DVD player or a good HDTV, they really are gorgeous. I think in a year, the offering will be better, the HDTV programming more plentiful, and the prices half again of what they are now. I think Moore's Law applies to TV as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Seeing as Who's the Boss has been off the air for several years, I don't think you'll need to worry about watching it in HD. If all you want to watch is DVD's, why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Tom, DVDs, even the best of them, are NOT HD. All DVDs are MPEG compressed video. The video equal of audio mp3s. Depending on the signal path, the digital video on the DVD may be uncompressed, converted to analog, and then back to digital all while degrading the picture quality. I've invested time and money into this endever and what I ended up with is a LCD projector that can accept a true digital DVI signal, and a source DVD player that can feed it. The picture quality extracts about what is possible from DVD. Still not HD quality, but close. The absolute source of informaiton on the internet for HT is the audio video science forum. AVScience.com. - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 If none of the TV's that you looked at were ISF'd by a professional then I would expect your comments. Also what DVD players were being used? What most people don't realize is that to get the most out of a digital TV set you need to put about 500 hours on the tubes and then get someone to come out and adjust it for you (or learn to do it yourself). One of the most important settings for these sets is grayscale and you just can't do that by eye or using any of the various test DVD's. There are also service menu settings that can be adjusted to turn off things like "auto flesh" and edge enhancement. Take a look at this month's Home Theater magazine. They tested 10 or so sets and in all instances the picture was greatly improved after a calibration. On my set DVD's look like film, HD material is simply outstanding, and SD material is better than on my normal TV so I can tell you that the TV's work. I just don't know what was wrong with the ones you were seeing. Laters, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Tom, If an HD signal looks good and DVDs and LDs look bad, I think what you are seeing is just how bad DVDs and LDs are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 In Consumer Reports issue this month they tested all types of High Def and Enhanced Def TV's (Plasma, LCD, PVT's and Direct View CRT's) I will paraphrase their finding's. The best picture qualtity for HD, Digital and DVD's is with the Direct View CRT's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Also remember just because it is on HD, the TV series was not shot in HD. BIIIIIIGGG Difference!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 ---------------- On 2/13/2004 2:10:58 PM gcoker wrote: In Consumer Reports issue this month they tested all types of High Def and Enhanced Def TV's (Plasma, LCD, PVT's and Direct View CRT's) I will paraphrase their finding's. The best picture qualtity for HD, Digital and DVD's is with the Direct View CRT's ---------------- Exactly why I went with the direct view Toshiba. It has a great picture with digital cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyleS Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Hi, Sorry to hear about your experience. I've had a 61" toshiba HD ready set since 1999. What I learned when I shopped around for my set was as follows: 1. Out of the box a quality 36" direct view TV looks better than most RPTV's. Two things happen with the tube sets. First they aren't big enough to show some of the fine errors that we see so clearly on the big screen sets. Second they don't have the resolution to do HDTV justice. 2. Projection TV's are set in "Torch" mode from the factory to give them the brightest picture on the showroom floor. Usually this is acompanied by an overly blue (cool) colour temp setting. Unfortunately this is often accompanied by a video switch box that sends a crappy dvd or tv signal to the tv's. The only way to tell what a RPTV is capable of is by seeing a set that has been ISF calibrated. You may want to post on AVSForum and see if someone in your city with a calibrated RPTV would let you come by for a look. 3. I have had guests over to see my TV after it was calibrated and they realized that I have a 61" picture that holds it's own with the 36 Sony Wega's of the world for DVD's. The image quality and resolution, colour are the same, but I get a much larger picture. With HDTV my picture is superior to a direct view set(7"CRT's can show more picture information than even the best direct view sets). With regular broadcast TV from a satellite dish, It's kinda a wash, cause Garbage In (low quality compressed signals) equals garbage out (Visible artifacts on the screen. The final thing to check out is that very few stores will hook up dvd or LD with component video cables (Best Picture quality). If they use composite connections (simple yellow cable) and further if they use a splitter box to feed a whole series of sets, you get crappy picture. My best advice is to determine a size you want to buy, a price point you feel fits your budget, and then to do some homework on the net as to what brands seem to receive the best feedback from reviewers, and knowledgeable owners who have taken the time to calibrate the sets properly and to feed them with good quality signals. In simplest terms, Toshiba, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Panasonic all seem to have sets now that respond well to calibration. Finally if buying a widescreen set and planning to watch a fair bit of regular TV, pay attention to the quality of the "Stretch" modes on the sets, some manufacturers seem to have done a better job of making traditional 4:3 material viewable on the widescreen sets with a minimum of visible distortion of the image. I agree with the others that the best place for tons of info is www.avsforum.com, or sites with a heavy video influence such as www.hometheaterspot.com Lyle. PS. Yep I agree it bites to have to spend an additional 300 to 500 to calibrate a set professionally, but in my opinion it was worth it in spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtbiker Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Standard definition TV won't look as good as HD or DVD. All Digital TV's convert 480i SD to 480P or 1080i. The quality of the internal scaler that does this conversion makes or breaks how good the SD broadcast looks. Pioneer Elite's and the New Mitsubishi XXX13 have very good internal scalers. DVD players with DCDI or Silicon Image scaler chips are the best progressive scan DVD players. I hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 14, 2004 Author Share Posted February 14, 2004 Thanks for the replies guys. A couple of things. I know about calibrating TVs, color temperature and all that. I go back to issue #1 of The Perfect Vision and Beta Hi-fi. I used to use the old 2 disc LD version of Video Essentials to setup my TVs.:-) What I've experienced is that when watching "regular" TV; DVDs, LDs, cable and such, is that digital TVs do an inferior job of display compared to analog TVs. Every digital TV I've seen has been covered in a fine haze of digital distortion when displaying such images. The same TVs look fine displaying HD though I detect annoying artifacts in HD too. I'm left assuming that the extra circuitry of digital TVs is messing up non HD signals. Perhaps going straight DVI as Babb suggested would solve the problem, I dunno. Maybe some of you fellas are ignoring the digital distortion I see or aren't bothered by it. Anyway for now I'll stick with my 36" Wega. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 I enjoy my analog Pioneer 50" for regular TV. When I got my Mitsu ws55819 I didn't watch regular tv on it--my Sony 17" tube and Pioneer were preferred. I do like DVD's (not of TV shows but of movies). HDTV only looks great when it's shot in full HDTV. Some HDTV broadcasts are sharper but have digital issues that are more disturbing that a soft analog picture (in my mind). My older interlaced DVD player isn't great but my PC plays a fantastic picture....especially with HD material like the CORAL REEF ADVENTURE on DVD-ROM for PC at 1080p...this is great eye candy. I have a Comcast HDTV box but I haven't watche TV since the superbowl. I mostly listen to music, watch DVDs and do my forum reading/writing on my RPTV....although tonight I viewed photos on the RPTV of my kids in the big Dallas snow yesterday. It's interesting that I got HDTV for the first time just before the Superbowl and other than surfing TV the first day I got the box I haven't watched an HDTV show (or any TV) since the SUPERBOWL. In fact I disconnected the box so I could hook my PC back up (I need a switch). When Comcast adds HDTV PVR and march madness and baseball season heats up I'll start getting my money's worth from HDTV. I would have watched the NBA all-star game but I forgot to record it (in SD on the PC) and wasn't available to watch it live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 ---------------- On 2/14/2004 12:58:15 PM TBrennan wrote: Maybe some of you fellas are ignoring the digital distortion I see or aren't bothered by it. ---------------- Maybe you have not seen my TV hehehehe... I do not trust any best buys etc for TV picture quality... Go to high end or decent local store....and have the tech guru walk you through it with several video sources; cable, Over Air, Satelite, DVD, VHS DVHS etc etc You may have just seen a bunch of crappy TVs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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