Mike Frankel Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Does anyone have any experience with the difference between the original McIntosh C22 preamp and the '90's reissue. I know that there are different tubes in the reissue. Why did they do that? Does that effect the sound, and if so, which do any of you prefer? Thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frankel Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 No one has any opinions? here's hoping for help. Thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Mike, Please relax and wait for one of the Mac guys to chime in here. Sometimes they are busy and not on here for a few days. Someone will answer you, just be patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frankel Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Sorry, did not mean to be impatient Will wait quietly. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Mike, McIntosh never reissued anything while they were under original management. When Clarion finally managed to buy them out, they almost blew a knee out getting some of the original flagships reissued as "commemorative" new equipment. While I have not heard neither the original nor the reissue(ie the MC275 or the C22,) this action was undertaken to gain from a marketing and sales approach, not a product approach. The quality probably is addressed when you observe that the reissues routinely sell for $500 to $1000 less than the originals. If you are buying for a purist's dream of owning McIntosh, or to own a hot cachet item, I would stick with the original. If you are shooting for sound, Alan Songer, Jazman, and a few others have some in depth expertise and can guide you far better than I. It is a big investment, solid financially if you do it with prudence, but you can reward yourself more with lesser equipment in the short run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 One important difference (to me at least) is that the reissue had better output switching capability...it could handle two sets of amps and switch them in and out independantly, the original did not...the reissue was lovingly made to sound like the original but with a lower noise floor and less hiss. If you can find a reissue at a godd price I would pick it up. others may disagree, let´s see what they say. regards, tony BTW you MUST visit roger russell´s page for info about everything McIntosh: http://www.roger-russell.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 If you are pursuing vintage (collectible) notions the C22 original currently holds it value better than the reissue model. However, the original has some outdated features (level matching, tape EQ, low freq trim, etc.) on it that few people have any real use for and has single-ended amp outputs only, tube compliment is 6 12AX7's. If you listen to very old vinyl the original C22 has a RIAA vs. LP compensator switch. The reissue has balanced amp outputs, an additional tape monitor loop, and uses 3 12AT7 and 4 12AX7 tubes. If you check out this link http://www.roger-russell.com/preamps.htm#C22r it has features and specs listed, and this link http://www.berners.ch/McIntosh/en/Frame_McIntosh.htm has images and .pdf's of the manuals for both models. If you're not worried about having a vintage McIntosh system you may want to consider their latest design: the C2200 http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/products/McIntoshProduct.jsp?product_id=10 . All the benefits of the C22's original circuit with modern features, superior switching, balanced outputs/inputs, and remote control. Having owned both an original 60's vintage C22 and my current C2200 in my opinion the C2200 is a better sounding preamp and doesn't require the maintenance (pot cleaning) of the older units. It does cost a little more than the C22's but used can be had via Audiogon. Both model C22's run about $2k used and a C2200 averages around $3k used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frankel Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Gentlemen: Thanks for the inmput and opinions. I probably want to go with the older configuration, since I do listen to a lot of old LP'S. I am interested also, in the fact that the bass and treble controls are +/- 20 db, since I like a lot of leeway in the tone controls. That is why I have ruled out most modern preamps, since they do not have tone controls. The McIntosh 220 only has a +/-12 db for bass and treble. I am also considering an Eico St 84 or HF 85 and a Scott 130. It really depends on price and availability, but to me it is like McIntosh had contact with the Roswell Aliens or something. Their preamps from about the same time seem like they were functioning on a higher level of technologhy than anyone else. I know you pay a price for it, but if all you guys agree that the McIntosh is superior, I will probably play and waiting and hoping game to get my hands on an original C22, unless a reissue comes along art a bargain. What does anyone think a fair price for either the original or the reissue. Best, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Hey...I have a C22R that you can have when I die... Brings tears of joy to my eyes every time I turn the bad boy on.... The best preamp I have ever heard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I just wanted to point out the the reissue had 20db tone controls. I also want to agree about the new C2200 preamp, that is permanently on my wish list. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frankel Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Hello SAAgain All: I have a chance to get an original C22 for $1500.00 including shipping and insurance. Should I go for it? Do the things that were updated really make a difference? Does the output of the original limit me to cery\tain amps, as one member stated. I have an unmodified Dynaco ST 70, that I plan to use with it. Is that the right kind of amp? Which modern tube amps could I use if I find that I do not like the sound of the Dynaco with the C22. Sorry for all the questions, but it is a big investment. Thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 ---------------- On 2/25/2004 5:56:31 PM Mike Frankel wrote: Hello SAAgain All: I have a chance to get an original C22 for $1500.00 including shipping and insurance. Should I go for it? Do the things that were updated really make a difference? Does the output of the original limit me to cery ain amps, as one member stated. I have an unmodified Dynaco ST 70, that I plan to use with it. Is that the right kind of amp? Which modern tube amps could I use if I find that I do not like the sound of the Dynaco with the C22. Sorry for all the questions, but it is a big investment. Thanks Mike ---------------- IMO, Modern preamps are better. I would buy a modern tube preamp (without the extra circuitry and tone controls) for less than $1500, and use the extra funds for a better power amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Sort of off the subject, but another McIntosh preamp tale: I've got a McIntosh C40 preamp and I did a test by bypassing it, running my cd player directly into the output MC300 amp, which has gain pots on the input channels that I could use to control the volume. Then I A/B'd the C40 with the same cd, etc. I expected to be able to tell a difference hand down, but the bottom line was this: The volume knob on the C40 was more convienient to use. THATS IT! the difference in sound quality was not enough to dissuade me from including the preamp in the circuit. It ain't being lazy, it's just too close to make a change, even to a passive volume control... I previously had an Audio Research preamp that had a "direct" input on it. Not even close to the C40. The C40 is hands down the best preamp I've ever owned. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Mike, I am selling a similar Mac in order to buy one of Mark Deneen's Blueberry preamps discussed extensively in another thread in this section. It has better specs, better build quality, and thirty years from now will only be hitting a similar age range. $1500 is torward the lower range of pricing for a C22, but it will be far above the league of the ST70. I am in the exact same equipment situation as you and know how these Macs sound with a built Dynaco ST70. You should check out Mark's preamp thread, and at some time in the future, pull the ST70 into the garage for some fine tuning. Craig does a fair amount of Dynaco rebuild tweaks, and I will dig through posts to see who Ken Johnson had rebuild my Dynaco ST70 in Texas.Maybe Ken will see this and chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frankel Posted February 25, 2004 Author Share Posted February 25, 2004 Dave: Do you mean that you are selling a McIntosh C22? If you are how much are you asking? Do you think if I get the C22 for $1500.00 and upgrade the ST 70, I will havve a good sounding system? Thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Mike, you will have a very good system, BUT the Dynaco will be the limiting component here. You would rather have a tuner, CD player, or phono being your limiting component, in my view, unless your system is a single source dedicated one. My preamp is spoken for, and is not a C22. I sent you an e-mail with more details on the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Mike, The C-22 is the best vintage, Mac preamp. But, you can have a much better preamp for much less, like this one http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1082737662 and if you don't need a phono stage, it will be even cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Guy, I'm with Dave on this one. I think I'd rather have Mark's Juicy Blueberry. Even though I've never meet him I can say that I know him. I can't say that about Conrad Johnson or that Scotsman, Macintosh. Someday maybe I can even afford a pair of Craig's amps. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 Rick, I use my ears when I buy my gear and if I'm not able to audition it, I ask the opinion of people that I trust, and certainly prefer to accept their recommendations (especially, if they are unbiased). It seems that we're just different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 and BTW, Dave was recommending his C-20 and not the Blueberry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.