Colin Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Come back Artto. Come back as an older, wiser, prodigal son. I admit I do not know about the ceiling fan commentary, but that is beside the point. I want diverse opinions in this forum. I want to hear that SVS has different tube subs than Klipsch offers. I want to know why Sony or Yammie receivers arent good matches for big ole horns. I want the controversy. Americans embrace controversy and differences in opinions. We learn from what others have to say. There is no democracy without dissent. Imagine how tepid this cup of tea would be if Klipsch didnt allow criticisms of their products: we would all have to gather secretly someplace else to compare our honest opinions. There have been other flamers in the past. There will be more in the future. Public forums attract those who want attention by shouting. It works in the short run for Joseph McCarthy, Adolph Hitler, Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robinson; but their bombast doesnt stand up against the quiet reason of judiciously applied facts. But turning off the forum is no solution. It punishes the victims, NOT the perpetrators. It retreats in the face of adversary. It lets the flamers win. One of my favorite sayings is attributed to British statesman Edmund Burke: all that is necessary for evil to exist is for good men to do nothing. So we good men can NOT ignore the provocations of smaller minds and childish behaviors. We can NOT ignore insults or personal attacks. No body can. But we can act like Solomon in our response. Offended parties should ignore the posts and threads of rude and childish flamers. They can alert the forum moderators. The moderators can warn the obnoxious posters, suspend and then ban them. The forum should wear the insulters and their obnoxious behaviors out. We should promote a name-calling contest to exorcise the demons. Just as capitalists should study Marxism (I did), Catholics should learn about Muslim and solid-state lovers should listen to what tube-ophiles have to say; we should invite the provocateurs to participate in the debate. This forum is a wonderful place to visit. It is a powerful place of knowledge. Can you imagine any regular member making any significant investment in their home movie and music reproduction system without learning more about it from the brain trust accumulated here? It would be folly. Just as it is folly to let rude children dictate to wise adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathangen Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 I like Rush. You should not compare him to Hitler.Hitler killed at least 6 million people World war 2. You should apalogize I think!!!!!!!!!!!! Nat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleve Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 "Let him go, let him go. Another quaalude he gonna love us again!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Nat---Thanks for the insight into your character. I now know how much credence to give anything you have to say. Once again, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 ---------------- On 3/21/2004 10:10:38 AM Colin wrote: There have been other flamers in the past. There will be more in the future. Public forums attract those who want attention by shouting. It works in the short run for Joseph McCarthy, Adolph Hitler, Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robinson; but their bombast doesnt stand up against the quiet reason of judiciously applied facts. ---------------- Yeah, Colin, this comment was way out of line. Rather ironic, isn't it? Hmmm, so people who shout and want attention are like Hitler? I think that must include several billion people on the planet. Why not criticize anyone who likes Beethoven? After all, Hitler loved him. Yes, you music lovers are all like Hitler, who was a great fan of music. And I don't know who Pat Robinson is. Was he on Lost in Space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istari Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Artto Come Back!!!! I have found your posts most informative and insightful! I'll be building my GMR Khorn room soon and would like to be able to chat with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istari Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 I didn't want to mix this comment with a plea to Artto to come back. I believe that rush should take his own advice. He ranted and raved about putting drug pushers and dopers behind bars and throwing away the key, now that the truth is laid bare and he is found to be one of them, he is using every trick in the book to try and weasel his way out of his just punishment! Of course with all of his money he will probally be able to buy his way out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 ---------------- On 3/21/2004 11:48:44 AM Istari wrote: I believe that rush should take his own advice. He ranted and raved about putting drug pushers and dopers behind bars and throwing away the key, now that the truth is laid bare and he is found to be one of them, he is using every trick in the book to try and weasel his way out of his just punishment! Of course with all of his money he will probally be able to buy his way out... ---------------- Interesting take. And so that makes him the moral equivalent of Hitler? Sheeesh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Let's stay on topic, we can all voice our opinion in the voting both -- come chad or high water. I thought those posts by Artto were fine, and long overdue. I was within an inch of pulling the trigger myself, and I'm glad he saved me the trouble. What made Artto's post acceptable is that he wasn't involved in the long standing fued -- so he had some objectivity. He did it without prejudice -- I couldn't have done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 ---------------- On 3/21/2004 11:59:08 AM DeanG wrote: Let's stay on topic, we can all voice our opinion in the voting both -- come chad or high water. I thought those posts by Artto were fine, and long overdue. I was within an inch of pulling the trigger myself, and I'm glad he saved me the trouble. What made Artto's post acceptable is that he wasn't involved in the long standing fued -- so he had some objectivity. He did it without prejudice -- I couldn't have done that. ---------------- When you say trigger, do you mean on your Glock? It isn't worth it, Dean! If you think hanging chads were bad, wait until we have *everyone* crying fraud over these computerized voting machines. How can anyone trust them? They could be rigged a thousand different ways and who's to know when it's all digital hocus pocus and software. The best way of voting is in a place in Africa I heard about. Voters have two jars for each issue. They walk up and put a pebble in the jar of their choice. When voting is done, the pebbles are counted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 On 03/21/04 Colin said: "There have been other flamers in the past. There will be more in the future. Public forums attract those who want attention by shouting. It works in the short run for Joseph McCarthy, Adolph Hitler, Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robinson; but their bombast doesnt stand up against the quiet reason of judiciously applied facts." --------------------------------------------------------- This bologna is significantly more damaging than any comment about crap on a ceiling fan. We can take being called a name but this ignorant spew is the sort of thing that people get upset over. Very unnecessary and quite unfortunate. BTW, let's keep hitler in the past tense where he belongs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 21, 2004 Author Share Posted March 21, 2004 what? nobody is upset that I included McCarthy in that group? after all, we know now that he was right, Alger Hiss was a spy and the Russians did have thousands of sleepers in the US! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Colin, dragging out comparisons to Hitler isn't any better than what Artto did with his dog doo on the ceiling fan comment, IMO. So, anybody who believes differently than you is equivilent to to a genocidal mass murderer? GMAB. As far as I'm concerned you posting stuff like that is a great example of why this forum is going to pieces and being shut down. Polarizing, offensive, demeaning, hysterical, those are the kind of words that characterize your post. IOW, you are choosing to act like part of the problem, not part of the solution. I invite you to take a week or two off and think it over. I really like this place and hate to see it trashed by stuff like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 ---------------- On 3/21/2004 11:55:02 AM paulparrot wrote: ---------------- On 3/21/2004 11:48:44 AM Istari wrote: I believe that rush should take his own advice. He ranted and raved about putting drug pushers and dopers behind bars and throwing away the key, now that the truth is laid bare and he is found to be one of them, he is using every trick in the book to try and weasel his way out of his just punishment! Of course with all of his money he will probally be able to buy his way out... ---------------- Interesting take. And so that makes him the moral equivalent of Hitler? Sheeesh! ---------------- Paul, Try as I might, I can't see where Istari put Rush and Hitler in the same post. Seems to me that Istari confined his comments to the drug use issue, and that his post has some merit. You know, practice what you preach, judge not lest ye be judged, if you're gonna talk the talk, &c. If you want to argue his argument with him, you should do that. If you want to argue Colin's argument with Colin, you should do that. I'd honestly rather you didn't, since this is an audio forum and attacking or defending Rush has absolutely squat to do with audio. In any case, though, it is poor form to attack a man for saying things he did not say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 21, 2004 Author Share Posted March 21, 2004 I didn't compare flamers to mass murders. I compare them to those "who want attention by shouting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFinco Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 ---------------- There have been other flamers in the past. There will be more in the future. Public forums attract those who want attention by shouting. It works in the short run for Joseph McCarthy, Adolph Hitler, Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robinson; but their bombast doesn’t stand up against the quiet reason of judiciously applied facts. ---------------- those who find some huge issue with this above paragraph... Don't take words so literally...... the words don't COMPARE hitler and limbaugh and robinson, they find a simliar concept. There is no compareison in there at all. the words merely pull examples of people throughout history that gained the ear of others through a similar technique. the technique in question here is being louder than others. It then goes on to say that this increase in volume and the attention that ensues from said volume increase will not "stand up" in the long run against actual facts. There is no compairison here whatsoever, and its hard to dispute that all of these people in the paragraph did in fact get to where they are or were by being louder and more dynamic than their competition. Its also hard to dispute that they have common elements such as being a dynamic speaker, groups of followers, and..they all wear pants.(some levity.....) the fact that people took this COMPLETELY out of context is somewhat rediculous. If this sort of thing gives you issue than I suggest that you never read any book or opinion based item for the remainder of your life, because often, the intrigue and the joy of the work is based on reading between the lines. I'm sure I'll get blasted for this-- please note though that nowhere in this did I personally attack anyone. I merely pointed out that there was a potential misinterpretation, that snowballed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Colin Let's wait till ALL of the facts on Rush are in. OK? He can be extreme in some of his views, but seems to be dead on the truth more than not. Most people do not get his "go to the extreme to prove a point attitude." The people making him by far the most famous talk show host EVER in ratings, proves he must be doing something right. Especially considering how many years he has been on. After all, he is a "commentary" host on the radio. He does like everyone else have a right to his opinion too. Last time I checked... He had not obstructed anything from any federal agents. Is under full cooperation and wants to tell his side of the story too. Rush may have been addicted to drug pills after extreme back pain and problems after surgery. But remember this, he never sold, pushed, or was a trafficker for others which he is and always has been against. So how does the left do it???? Martha Stewart, on the other hand, lied.. Plain and simple. You do not do that to federal investigators. She obstructed justice, changed facts and lied. All this for her own small personal gain because she felt "above it all." Martha Stewart herself cost to you and I (If we had our funds in Imclone) of an estimated 2.5-3 billion lost in market price of the retirement funds of other investors money that she profited from before the general public was able to know the facts. They will most likely send her to jail. Opinions are like a$$holes. Every one has one, everyone feels a need to know theirs is of the utmost importance, and needs to be heard. So how do you do that in an open society to allow people to share ideas and still somehow to respect each other? We have a very unique opportunity here in the USA to grow and learn from each other. When we forget this 228 yr. experiment is to include everyone, and instead bringing walls and ignorance and hatred for those things we refuse to accept or go forward with. I am afraid were going backwards rather than forward! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 ---------------- On 3/21/2004 11:33:38 AM TBrennan wrote: Nat---Thanks for the insight into your character. I now know how much credence to give anything you have to say. Once again, thank you.---------------- I find it interesting that everyone has ignored this remark, since it's highly insulting and elitist. Someone states that they might happen to like Rush Limbaugh and automatically it's inferred that their opinion is not worth hearing. Gee, I wonder how the flames get started with such an outpouring of understanding and good will. Nice way to encourage newbies to participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 I suggest that Klipsch ban all the baiters. It's funny "they" all seem to come from the same direction. Rfinco - if you read "no intent to bait" in colin's remarks, then you are very mistaken. He could have easily made the point with no mention of names. EASILY my friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFinco Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 ---------------- On 3/21/2004 5:37:33 PM boomac wrote: I suggest that Klipsch ban all the baiters. It's funny "they" all seem to come from the same direction. Rfinco - if you read "no intent to bait" in colin's remarks, then you are very mistaken. He could have easily made the point with no mention of names. EASILY my friend! ---------------- I agree Boomac--baiting is not nice. I also agree that the point could have been made without names, or at the very least with names that have no IMMEDIATE relevence to our daily lives. I just found the idea that, because someone has a similar idea or technique then they must be that thing in its entirety, quite silly. I read the repeated posts about a non-existant comparison between hitler and rush and whomever and I wanted to express something. the logic that was used is specious reasoning. drawing a conclusion on non existant facts. This seems to be an ongoing issue on all internet forums-which makes it hard to communicate an idea without upseting SOMEONE in the process... There needs to be some frame of refrence in any opinion based conversation--but what does one do when every frame of refrence is potentially offending? Someone always reads into something, or believes that the post is "about them", or that "it took a shot" at them...even when names are withheld. But--I do agree with what you said--perhaps the initial starting post could have been more of a "please come back because I value your opinions" as opposed to a justification of action. I will say this as my own personal opinion: Artto seems to contribute quite a bit of knowledge to this forum, and has a element of value. Often, people that have elements of value become at times harsh as their opinion about the matter is formed on what they belive to be unflagging accuracy and research, but does that reduce the value of what he provides? I don't believe it does. However--this does not condone the original trouble starting comment. I'm merely saying surely what has been provided in the past is worth the current indescresion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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