richieb Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 In laymans terms can someone explain what differencs can be had with Cornwalls and a Cayin TA-30, EL 34 based integrated vs. an EICO HF-81. Can I possibly appreciate the differences? And why? Will the EICO demand constant tinkering to see its maximum potential. I am not much the tinkering type, plug and play is more my style. Thanks Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Rich, I am not a tinkering type myself, despite recent mods done to my Khorns - but that's another story -, so obviously I was a bit reluctant as well getting a vintage (read: 40 or 50 years old!) amp. But my experience so far has been that once your amp has been serviced/rebuilt, it should perform as reliably as a modern tube amp. Actually I have seen more than one of those new amps arriving at the local dealer unable to play because something was wrong internally. So once you are sure you have found a trustworthy tech, I cannot see any reason not to go vintage. Cayin vs. Eico: I don't know the TA-30 intimately enough to comment (except that I remember it as quite decent), but I had a Cayin 743D which uses 300B tubes (and was considerably more pricey). I was really quite happy with it (having had some caps replaced and tubes rolled), but when the Eico arrived, it wasn't long until the Cayin was sold. Believe me, the Cayin was not bad and had a nice tone, but with the Eico I simply had more information at both frequency extremes. Now not being a tech, I cannot really evalute or explain statements I have read often when it comes to vintage amps and their transformers. But most people seem to agree that it is this vintage iron (or rather vintage craftsmanship, I suppose) which gives them an advantage over modern tube amps...especially considering how relatively cheap vintage amps are (even after rebuilt). Will you be able to perceive the difference? I suppose that depends on your listening experiences/skills...but remember, the ear learns very quickly, so I'd certainly go vintage (provided a good tech provides you with the necessary backup). Wolfram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 The Cayin will have more drive and be much more source picky ! The HF-81 will be very musical and have that vintage rolled sound which can make almost any CD sound listenable. Which would you like better will really depend on what type of listening you do as in music type and volume required. I have a Cayin and have owned or rebuilt at least 15 HF-81's. For my Chorus speakers I would probably rather have the HF-81 for its ease of listening if that was my only two choices keep in mind ultimate volume would never be achieved with a HF-81 if that is a goal. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 The Cayin is also solid state rectifiied, where as the Eico is tube rectified -- so the Eico will naturally sound more "tubey". Solid state rectified tubes amps (generally speaking), tend to have a little bit of a faster, harder, driving kind of sound like solid state. Personally, I like them. OTOH, hard core Tubies claim solid state rectified amps also bring with them a somewhat mechanical "artificial" kind of sound, versus the more organic, "natural" sound of tube rectified units. Another big difference between the units would be in the preamp section. I don't know what the Cayin is doing in there, so I can't comment. The tube types themselves would make a big difference too. EL-34's sound kind of "fat" in the bass, and really spread out the sound. My experiece with the two Scotts I had makes me think the EL-84's are quicker and tighter sounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 I just hooked up my HF-81 last evening (I've had it for several months just sitting in storage) and I am now enjoying my Valencias more than ever. One thing to offer here is that the HF-81 gives controls for bass and treble. The Eico also has a "focus" knob which is an upgrade on the Cayin. Either way, I don't think you can go wrong as each have their strengths. Just don't get too tangled up in your decision. For a little more money, to have a new and modern looking piece could be much more impressive than having to explain the squatty brown brick-looking thing in your configuration when it isn't on. But when the Eico is on, the music does the talkin' for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 The focus on the HF-81 is nothing like the focus on the Cayin. The Cayin Focus control is actually a adjustable feedback while the focus on the HF-81 is nothing but a cheesy balance control that I like to bypass myself. I personally do not care for the focus control on the Cayin either it seems like I'm never happy with where it set is at ! Of coarse that is just me I'm sure a normal person wouldn't have these insane issues I have Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted April 24, 2004 Author Share Posted April 24, 2004 I am presently using the Cayin and it does have the focus control. Volume is not an issue. I listen to jazz, preferabley piano/bass/vocals, smooth jazz, some country and blues. I find the Cayin a very nice peice. It completely blew away my Unison Research hybrid, really no comparison. I should be satisfied, and actually am, quite, but you know how it is - The audio upgrade drug - Will someone please help me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Very well said Mark !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 ---------------- On 4/24/2004 1:26:11 PM mdeneen wrote: In the better tube designs this doesn't happen... mdeneen ---------------- In your humble opinion, what are some examples of this "better design" (without sounding fruity)? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 I haven't heard the Cayin, so cannot speak to any a/b comparison with the HF-81, though have got two HF-81's in my house. One is rebuilt and the other is in really fine condition as stock. I would tend to think a move to the Eico would be a lateral move rather than upgrade to your Cayin. The Eico has a sweet sound to it, but one thing that bothers me is that the controls don't seem to age well. Even after cleaning them they get noisy again and are not really smooth in their operation. Another thing about Eico transformers, you will be hit or miss to find a quiet one. Also, what Ebay sellers assure the buyer is "quiet" are generally thinking "quiet for a 1959 vintage amp." This is not what I would define as "quiet". My recommendation would be to set your sights higher, since the HF-81 IMO would probably not be the best candidate for a stand alone main amp. This forum can provide a world of recommendations in the bang for buck category for any given budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 ---------------- On 4/24/2004 1:47:37 PM DaddyDee wrote: The Eico has a sweet sound to it, but one thing that bothers me is that the controls don't seem to age well. Even after cleaning them they get noisy again and are not really smooth in their operation. ---------------- I am far from an expert, but consider that the Eico (and Dynaco) was a kit rig - hardly the stuff you would expect rave reviews on half a century later. I had a PAS3 once that had the crappiest controls I have ever had the displeasure turning. Sold it because it was also UGLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 ---------------- On 4/24/2004 1:47:37 PM DaddyDee wrote: I haven't heard the Cayin, so cannot speak to any a/b comparison with the HF-81, though have got two HF-81's in my house. One is rebuilt and the other is in really fine condition as stock. I would tend to think a move to the Eico would be a lateral move rather than upgrade to your Cayin. The Eico has a sweet sound to it, but one thing that bothers me is that the controls don't seem to age well. Even after cleaning them they get noisy again and are not really smooth in their operation. Another thing about Eico transformers, you will be hit or miss to find a quiet one. Also, what Ebay sellers assure the buyer is "quiet" are generally thinking "quiet for a 1959 vintage amp." This is not what I would define as "quiet". My recommendation would be to set your sights higher, since the HF-81 IMO would probably not be the best candidate for a stand alone main amp. This forum can provide a world of recommendations in the bang for buck category for any given budget.---------------- I commend you on a great post Daddydee ! One thing I will add though all moves in audio once you have something descent as a base line are lateral. It takes many lateral mooves to find your audio nervana and know one can give you advise as to what that can be only suggestions. There are no absolutes here. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Thanks Craig, Good point on lateral moves finding one's subjective preferences. I sure went through a few before getting to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Still sounds pretty fruity to me. I thought we were talking about amps? Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Mark, Come on now your hitting the vintage stuff pretty hard here. They may not be perfectly accurate but they sure do sound great. I've been running the 296 all day and I'll tell you right now I could get rid of every piece of gear I own and never look back with any major regret at all. Why don't I ? Because I don't want too Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Yeah, and what about my quirky Quads with 26.5db of feedback? Man, those things smoke...uh, I mean ... sound really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 No they really do smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 If you like EL-84 based vintage amps, I really recommend Leak Stereo 20 http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/leakstereo20.html or TL12+ (monoblocks). They are excellent sounding amps, work great with passive preamps (have 100mV input sensitivity) and are very easy to service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 Thank God, it means I don't have to try a Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 ---------------- On 4/24/2004 5:59:10 PM DeanG wrote: Thank God, it means I don't have to try a Mac. ---------------- Like THAT is going to stop you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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