Piranha Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Are MACs commanding more money now? Or is it this particular amps tube compliment that adds the juice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I have read the 275 is probably the worst sounding of the MAC's. Here's a couple quotes from the mastering guru Steve Hoffman regarding the 275... "The Mac 275 is (in my opinion) the worst sounding Mac amp, and the new ones don't sound anything like the old ones anyway. Only the lower powered Macs have that "sound"; the ones that use a 1614 / 6L6GC. I had a reissue 275 in my office at DCC for playback and sold the damn thing." Some Jap must want this bad boy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Yeah, I always thought people in the know preferred the 240. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 There are three serious collectors chasing this one, Pirhana. The Genelex Gold Lion KT88s are anywhere from $800 to $2000, and getting the original McIntosh Telefunken preamp tubes is also some bling. The seller might have purchased a new black chassis, as it sparkles compared to the chrome topplate, and the chrom ain't bad either - it just ain't perfect. They are running after this one hard just to be able to say "Yea, got the Mac 275, too. Haven't used it yet," ...and they probably never will. Every Mac owner I've come across in the Midwest (outside of CaptnBob, who I know uses a Mac 240 in his office, though I haven't asked his preference) prefers the MC30, MC225, or MC240, which all play in the field of 7591, 6L6, and KT 66 output tubes. The KT88/6550 tubes are more about heavy lifting than delicate bloom, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablum Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Steve Hoffman's stock with me just went down 60 points with that imbecilic Japanese reference. The Japanese tube crowd is far smarter than this and took their heads out of the A**es quite a few years before most of the US of A audio world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 ---------------- On 6/9/2004 12:49:15 PM pablum wrote: Steve Hoffman's stock with me just went down 60 points with that imbecilic Japanese reference. The Japanese tube crowd is far smarter than this and took their heads out of the A**es quite a few years before most of the US of A audio world. ---------------- Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 ---------------- On 6/9/2004 12:49:15 PM pablum wrote: Steve Hoffman's stock with me just went down 60 points with that imbecilic Japanese reference. The Japanese tube crowd is far smarter than this and took their heads out of the A**es quite a few years before most of the US of A audio world. ---------------- I don't really understand what is imbecilic about asking someone why they prefer the 275 over the 240 and the they state "Who cares about the sound, the 275 is bigger."? How is this offensive? That's what the guy said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Charlie, Not really related to this thread, but I was going to ask you. Do you prefer your Marantz 8B over the Mcintosh MC30 amps that you have? I was assuming so, as you seem to be using the Marantz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctiger2 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Kevin, I like them both. The only reason I'm not using the MAC's is that I don't currently have a rack that can properly protect them from 2 boxers rough housing around. I had them hooked up for a while, but they were sitting on top of the speakers which is not at all ideal. I do have shelves built into my walls that I may use for the MAC's. The MAC's seem to be more sensitive than the 8b. They allow me to hear just that much more into the music. I'll let you listen to both on Sat. Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 "Steve Hoffman's stock with me just went down 60 points with that imbecilic Japanese reference. The Japanese tube crowd is far smarter than this and took their heads out of the A**es quite a few years before most of the US of A audio world." All I can tell you is that I listened to him, and I'm happy as hell. I have also been wondering for some time why the MC-30's are soooo much less expensive than the others. Given the results on my horns, there is absolutely no reason for this to be the case. IOW, the MC30's are undervalued, when compared to the rest of the Mc tube amp lineup - or any other amp capable of such performance (which aren't many). Also worth noting is the penchant for high efficiency speaker ownership in the "pacific rim". They eat JBL compression driver type stuff UP over there, and with that being the case, I'm again taken aback at the relative lack of interest in the 30's compared to the bigger powered brothers. Ebay price patterns certainly cause me to recall the days of "more power is better, and therefore worth more $$". When you read opinions of high efficiency speaker owners expressing a preference amongst the Mac tube amps, the 30's sure get a helluva lotta praise. So while Mr. Hoffman's method of delivery may be less than "PC", I agree with the essence of what he is saying - that bigger isn't necessarily better. And for members of this forum in particular, his comments are certainly applicable, IMO. Of course, I'm all good with MC30 pairs costing half of the others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 The collectors on the Pacific Rim don't buy this stuff to use it - they buy it to have it! They will have a McIntosh wall, a Marantz wall, and a vintage horn speaker room JUST to have it! A friend from childhood goes over every three months for Caterpillar to give presentations. He has visited over thirty homes with vintage Mac equipment, and has yet to hear a Mac playing anything. The ones who do use their equipment generally are not collecters in the PR sense of the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Dave, Thanks for the post. That is a fascinating cultural observation. Can't really get my mind around the idea of collecting audio gear and not using it. Well, using it for display purposes. That's cultural differences for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablum Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Who's talking PC? It was a biased absurd statement. Substitute the word AMERICAN where you see Japanese than see how moronic it sounds. Besides, it's just plain WRONG. Perhaps THIS Japanese guy said that. But the Japanese are the vanguard of low watt amplifiers, far before the Americans or French. The Japanese were loving high efficiency horns when Americans were going with big brute solid state amps driving inefficient speakers. The idea of a Japanese wanting a BIGGER amp is contrary to most of what the Japanese audio nut goes for. The Japanese appreciated low power and simplicity in amp design while America was going BIGGER. How ironic for Steve Hoffman to talk of the Japanese wanting BIGGER when it's the AMERICANS that want BIG BIG BIG with amps of all types, tube or solid state. As for the 275, it's one of the most famous of the MAC amps which also accounts for the collector side of the equation. But this BIG comment? I for one believe the MC-30s are probably far sweeter sounding amps. I am not arguing this point. I just think his take on "Japanese audiophiles" is both naive and slightly ignorant sounding, Steve Hoffman or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Why should they want to buy unknown brands when they have got so many great local brands (most were unknown to us)? Esoteric japanese audio is considered as art and they regard their manufacturers as masters. But what the F*^% do they know anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chops Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I just looked at the closing bid on that amp... $5211.00!!!!! What an idiot! Who in their right mind would waist that kind of money on that amp?! Some people..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I take the Japanese collector's comment to mean that the physical size of the 275 amp is bigger. The "bigger" does not refer to watts or the sound. If indeed these Macs are being collected instead of listened to, a bigger amp might very well be more impressive on display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 ---------------- On 6/9/2004 8:42:15 PM chops wrote: I just looked at the closing bid on that amp... $5211.00!!!!! What an idiot! Who in their right mind would waist that kind of money on that amp?! Some people..... ---------------- An idiot with a brain, that will probably get his money back as soon as he decides to sell it and might even make same money on it. The price of an average looking MC275 is $3500 and he's got a fine piece there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Pablum, I used PR for Pacific Rim, not politically correct. I read the excerpt of Hoffman's posted here, and could not read a shade of prejudice regarding nationality. Diehard collectors want the biggest, oldest, rarest, and etal that delivers the greatest cachet, NOT the greatest value. I picked up a nonworking McIntosh MC275 in Washington state last year. Within a week, I had two offers from collectors for over $2,000 for it. I'll let you insert their country of origin and nationality, so you can spot the leopard and tar yourself. If I had a friend who paid $4500 for a vintage amp, with no warranty, that did not sound incredible, I would be the first to call him a fool and laugh at him in front of him. I would call this discernable ECONOMIC PREJUDICE, because you don't want to walk open-eyed into a giant loss on a significant investment in a non-durable good. There was a set of McIntosh MC30s (NOS, NIB)with guaranteed buyback sold on EBay last fall for around $3500. That set had a significant and unique factor that could justify their price tag - this one does not IMO. Smart, dumb, or prejudiced are descriptives we all qualify. It would be pretty hard to buy stereo components if we were not biased and prejudiced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 ---------------- On 6/9/2004 8:31:38 PM Guy Landau wrote: ..."Esoteric japanese audio is considered as art and they regard their manufacturers as masters." ---------------- I know the Japanese love their SET amplifiers, and are pretty much responsible for the SET craze presently going on in this country, but one man's art is another's junk IMO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Keep in mind, the average Japanese apartment is tiny, much smaller than the average in the US. For a typical listening room, visualize a walk-in closet in the US. A low-power amp has more chance in such a situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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