killerbee_vr6 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 I've been looking at some Crown pro amps and wondering how they are so inexpensive in comparison to the power figures they quote. I can get a Crown K2 for $1300 that has 475wpc? what gives? edit: sorry I spilled milk in the keyboard and had to clean it out. sigh. anyways, how would the K2 compare in sound quality to a conventional "home" amp? I'm looking for more power than the 100wpc I have, and these are tempting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 2:51:43 PM killerbee_vr6 wrote: I've been looking at some Crown pro amps and wondering how they are so inexpensive in comparison to the power figures they quote. I can get a Crown K2 for $1300 that has 475wpc? what gives? ---------------- Hello: Check out the specs and compare them to home amplifiers. Usually distortion both overall and IM are higher. Pro sound does not have to have all of the inputs, may be two (2) channel but not stereo. Also check the wattage - rms, peak, etc. There aren't too many Companies that make pro sound equipment that would be suitable in home. We have one here - Ashly Audio - that truly makes a product that is comparable. Also a number of the pro amps are meant to be driven closer to full power than home audio. Home audio also has to be more pleasing to the eye - not utilitarian, ready for rack mount. There are some other reasons such as the flatness of the range that may be different. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 killer---The pro amps are aimed at a different market; people who use amps as tools instead of at hobbyists who have an emotional interest in their amps. Such people are often more hard-nosed than audio hobbyists and have little tolerance for the BS that many audio hobbyists swallow. Thus they buy amps from an objective point of view; they ask what does this thing do and for how much money. So an amp will sell for less to pros than to hobbyists. Generally pro amps are more reliable when working under severe conditions. Or they should be. Many have excellent sound, QSC amps for instance. Indeed I've heard QSC amps in hi-fi systems that are unsurpassed in sound quality, IMO. At one time many audiophiles used Crown amps and loved them even though it's now fashionable to rap them. But there are many KHorns out there powered by Crowns. It's just that those people aren't writing on these forums. If the Crowns appeal to you try them out. If you don't like them bring them back. Most music stores will let do so; Guitar Center gives you 30 days to bring anything back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killerbee_vr6 Posted June 22, 2004 Author Share Posted June 22, 2004 Would you recommend a QSC amp? I can't find much info on any of the pro amps and any opinions would help. ---------------- On 6/22/2004 3:43:56 PM TBrennan wrote: killer---The pro amps are aimed at a different market; people who use amps as tools instead of at hobbyists who have an emotional interest in their amps. Such people are often more hard-nosed than audio hobbyists and have little tolerance for the BS that many audio hobbyists swallow. Thus they buy amps from an objective point of view; they ask what does this thing do and for how much money. So an amp will sell for less to pros than to hobbyists. Generally pro amps are more reliable when working under severe conditions. Or they should be. Many have excellent sound, QSC amps for instance. Indeed I've heard QSC amps in hi-fi systems that are unsurpassed in sound quality, IMO. At one time many audiophiles used Crown amps and loved them even though it's now fashionable to rap them. But there are many KHorns out there powered by Crowns. It's just that those people aren't writing on these forums. If the Crowns appeal to you try them out. If you don't like them bring them back. Most music stores will let do so; Guitar Center gives you 30 days to bring anything back. ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Killer---Yes, I'd recommend a QSC. Just make sure you can return it if YOU don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyp Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Pro amps are designed to withstand frequent transportation abuses and to be driven near their thermal and electrical limits. I had a BGW 750 Series amp that delivered the best bass I've ever heard on a home stereo system. A friend gladly traded his Crown DC-300 for a BGW 750. The downside is their cooling fans are excessively noisey. They can be had for a song on eBay. Delivery may be expensive as they weigh about 70 lbs. However, I've heard some other models of BGW amps and not been impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 " I can get a Crown K2 for $1300 that has 475wpc? what gives?" K2s are basically a bargain. Loads of very clean power for reasonable prices. I have a pair of them and used one on my earlier L/R speakers before I got the La Scala's. The other powered my center channel and ContraBass subwoofer. Haven't tried a K2 on the La Scala's as that just seems like insane overkill for power. I originally bougth the K2 to run just my sub but on a whim tried it on my L/Rs. Liked it so much I sold my Sunfire amp to buy another K2 to replace it. K2 are also very popular in the DIY subwoofer crowd. I'll be using one to power a pair of sealed subs with (2) JBL Sub1500s in each. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 For what it's worth, I plan on purchasing a Crown K1 in the near future for my Home HT/Studio. I'll be powering a pair of Marantz 940s that can handle 250watts continuous at 8ohms (which makes the K1 just overpowered enough to allow for some decent headroom). As far as the audible difference between "home amps" and "pro amps"...I'd have to say that in general the pro amps sound better for the money. As already mentioned, they don't have any of the bells and whistles (that you really don't need) and their output is raw and clean. I've always been under the impression that "pro amps" sounded awful in the home, but after actually listening to a few pairs I quickly changed my prejudice. If it were 30 years ago, then I would say for sure that pro amps sound awful in the home, but lets not go there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Sort of the difference between a VW bug and a Farrari. They both will get you from point A to B... One is servicable, reliable and unfinicky. The other is meant for higher performance... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Klipsch has some QSC amps in their labs -- they like them. You can find them at www.partsexpress.com , and they have a 30 day return policy. You'll notice there are different lines, and they do have a top of line that's fairly expensive. Same with Crown. The Studio Reference series if VERY expensive. What do you do with these things if you want to use one, since they don't have RCA jacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Im an ex-PA jock who's used both and here's my .02. PA amps are made to take physical abuse, road dust, smoke, etc and STILL perform to spec, some even at 2 ohm loads ALL DAY! Try that with yer Denon receiver and see when it catches fire. PA amps have massive 'damping factors' which is my elementary electronics background is how instantaneously the amp's 'back pressure' can stop the woofer cone from ringing after a big note. In other words, the woofer, once it starts pumping, wants to keep ringing back in forth, it's the amp, to some extent, that limits this excursion, resulting in 'tighter' bass. Typical PA amps have damping factors at 500-1000, where good stereo amps may be rated at 200-500 and HT receivers at only about 50-150. One down side of using PA amps for home use is the noise of the fan and possibly some hum or other background noise generated by the amp, that is normally not heard in loud concert halls or clubs where the ambient sound is much higher than yer living room. But, hey, be my guest- rock on! I'm planning on using my Crown Micro-tech 1200 with two JBL 18" cabinets (don't worry, they're not Bass Gtr bins- REAL SUB bins designed for theatre) and see how they work with my Cornwalls in new HT theatre room. Will let you all know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 "What do you do with these things if you want to use one, since they don't have RCA jacks." If your pre-amp has balanced outputs just use them directly. If not for things like the K2 you just get TRS to RCA converters at R/S and use them, they work fine. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Most pro amps have 1/4 or XLR for inputs. They are still a normal hi-impedance input, so you can just use an adapter cable to go from your mixer/preamp to amp. Radio Shack makes adapters from RCA to 1/4 or RCA to XLR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Pro amps are designed with different criteria in mind. Professionals as you well know, make their living as, well, professionals. Here, things like reliability, power to weight/size ratios, low maintenance, etc. are of paramount importance. As one Crown engineer once told me, We like to think of our amps as being customer proof. These things are designed to keep on operating no matter what goes on. Over the years, its quite noticeable how the equipment properties have changed, diverged, in the consumer verses pro audio market. Take Crown for instance with their newest K series or I-Tech line of amplifiers. One of the most notable differences is the efficiency of these amps. Nearly 95% of the input power is converted to usable output power. When youre powering large nightclub or stadium or touring systems, the electrical power requirements can be quite significant. These amps cost far less to operate, electrically speaking. You will also notice that the amount of power output verses the size of the amp has increased dramatically and the weight of the amps has gone down compared to their power output. Space taken up is equivalent to real estate, and real estate costs money. And weight costs money to drag around. Many of these amplifiers now also have integrated networking capability for multiple amplifier control and monitoring from a single source, such as a PC. And most of all, professionals are not going to pay $50 grand per 100watt amplifier, especially one that is big, heavy, generates a lot of heat, that will most likely blow up on them after an hour of operation under the conditions they have to use these things. They cant justify the cost, the cost of operation, or the potential reliability problems, and still get a reasonable return on their investment. They are, after all, doing what they do, to make money. For what its worth, I use Crown amps for my everyday use. Rehearsing or learning new songs for my musician activities, background music, general Im not in the mood for critical listening activities, etc. I can leave them on 24/7 for years and not worry about anything. No, sonically they dont hold a candle to my tube gear. But for general listening, especially were the recording(s) isnt that great anyway, its fine. Ive used Crown DC300A, D150A, D60, PSA2, and K2 on my system. Most of the time I just use a pair of D60. Its more than adequate with Khorns. And I can always drag the 300, PSA2 or K out for PA use in the bands I play in if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 ---------------- On 6/22/2004 2:51:43 PM killerbee_vr6 wrote: I've been looking at some Crown pro amps and wondering how they are so inexpensive in comparison to the power figures they quote. I can get a Crown K2 for $1300 that has 475wpc? what gives? edit: sorry I spilled milk in the keyboard and had to clean it out. sigh. anyways, how would the K2 compare in sound quality to a conventional "home" amp? I'm looking for more power than the 100wpc I have, and these are tempting. ---------------- Crown amps are seriously kicka$$ units. The comments about distortion being higher and so forth are completely erroneous. Crown's reputation for putting out a high quality super-clean SS amp for studio monitoring is absolutely unmatched in the industry. Crown and QSC make some of the finest studio amps on the market. As far as the inexpensive aspect, you're really not talking about an inexpensive amp right there, friend. $1300 for 2x475 ain't cheap. My friend bought a 2x400 Carver brand new for $800, back when they were still in business. Granted, you have $1000/channel Krell units, but once you go to esoteric audio, you're going to pay a premium just because it's esoteric. In summation, buy your Crown and be happy with the result. Just be prepared to use RCA-1/4" adapter cables to plug it in to your preamp.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 I've got Crown, BGW, QSC, in my tri-amp PA system and all have been trouble-free for decades. For home Sub or Mains use, I'd go for one of the newer designs with quiet fan and low hum. Be sure to plug it into a proper grounded outlet with plenty of amperage to spare and have a ball! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 "For home Sub or Mains use, I'd go for one of the newer designs with quiet fan" The K2s are nice because they don't have a fan at all. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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