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False corners screwed into K horns?


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Has anyone thought of building with the same thickness or more than the k horn,(I do not know how to describe it other than this) into the sides? I was in the local Home Depot store in the wood department, and came across some very thick seemed like very sturdy thinking 3/4 inch thick baltic birch plywood and thought this would be a great side if I could somehow screw them into (yes carefully, probably glue onto the k horn a small wood blocks then screw the sides into the blocks to form the seal.)

This way we could all get the "perfect" placement we all look for in our living room too. I would paint them black and doubt anyone would see them anyhow. I know we have discussed this from time to time, but has anyone really ever done/ tried it too with any success? I know people have built false corners. This is different.

Mine cross over about 3 feet in front of the couch for an exact perfect triangle in my seating position and I have a big room too. For HT it is not an issue as the center does a lot of the work. For critical listening it actually crossed over about 2-3 feet behind me in my last house and I think I enjoyed that better feeling the soundstage open up some.

Were talking infinitessimal to huge differences here.... But ones we as good listeners of 2 channel music, appreciate even more.

I just wanted to know if anyone had done it to the speaker itself?

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Yes, people have been altering Khorns for free-standing use such as you describe for years now.

I would go with 1/2" myself, as you won't really gain much with the 3/4", as most of the Khorn is 1/2" anyway. You can add any bracing required inside the "new" horn with no problem and save some weight and not force the horn out of the corner... the wider your panels, the further out of the corner they will come, so 3/4" is the equivelent of moving them out (forward) 3/4" inches or so from the stock position. Oh, heck, go for the 3/4" stuff, it shouldn't require any additional bracing anyway! And any thing that you don't have to permanently attach to the cabinet is a good thing, so avoiding internal bracing is also good.

You will have to come up with a mechanism at the bottom front(s) to mount the new side panels to. But that is it.

Also, if you're careful in your approach the thing can be transparently convertable back to "stock".

Good luck with this mod. It does work.

DM2.gif

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I did it to one speaker on one side only when in a previous home. I only had one corner so i put the other speaker against the the wall and used 3/4 birch to enclose the side not against the wall. It worked fine.

Rigma

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But DO worry about bracing...without adding bracing I worry that the plywood may vibrate with the bass frequencies and muddy the sound. that is why klipsch suggests construction utilizing 2x4s covered with plywood to minimize vibration. regards, tony

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I got to thinking about the "bracing" issue. We all agree that reducing vibration in the side panels is a good thing.

What are the limitations on that?

Here's my thoughts....

1) the stock Klipschorn back reflector panel is 1/2" ply (as is the whole thing). While apparently weak and/or subject to vibration, but evidently, not too much of a problem, as they sound pretty good anyway. Therefore, worrying about the need for extra bracing may prove to be pointless. That is - it may not be "hearable".

2) the walls of most homes are even weaker, being 1/2" drywall in most cases. Even weaker. So why worry, if you don't brace the walls as it is right now?

3) If you did brace the "new" side panels on the outside, could you do it in a manner that was aesthetically pleasing? I probably could not.

4) what if you brace the "new" panels internally? it would have to attach permanently to the Khorn side(s). It would have to be placed in a manner that still allowed access to the back chamber access panel, etc. Somewhat of a problem; I would avoid that by using 5/8" or 3/4" sides with no bracing whatsoever (or perhaps only a thin strip-like horizontal attached to the inner sides of the "new" panels).

2x4 bracing is a bit out-of-hand in any case. Unless you want to pull down 130db sound levels, or land a 4-engine jet in your listening area...

DM2.gif

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Let's put it this way.............my walls are very heavily braced, 2x4 studs, standard 16" o.c. spacing with staggerd horizontal 2x4 stops with some staggered vertical studs inbetween, with four 2x12 plates lag bolted into the foundation wall on each side, the studs wedged tightly against the foundation wall, 1/2" solid core marine grade plywood 8' out from the corners, 5/8" Gypsum sheetrock over that, with the Khorn's tailboard secured to a cut down cut-to corner-fit mitered 2"x12" air-tight corner plate with (8) 1/4" lag screws and the corner plate secured to the wall with (10) 1/4" lag screws.

The wall still vibrates. (and so do the dishes in my neighbor's kitchen 40 or 50' away, maybe more) 3.gif

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I guess the results would be very room dependant. If you closed the backs of the Khorn, wouldn't it then sound more like a larger version of the La Scala?

One of my corners isn't completely sealed yet, there's a glass window intruding slightly in the corner. But I'll fix that with a piece of 3/4 inch board I have already cut to size.

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Since reading this thread I've been thinking too. Both of my speakers are very snug in their double brick corners. One of my corners needed some 3/4 inch board placed over a glass door/window to physically complete the corner as far as the Klipschorn was concerned. I got the board cut to size and I screwed it into place.

After doing so I played all sorts of music at varying levels to gauge the effect. Now at lower levels (read normal), I detected no improvement, nor deterioration, to the quality of the bass frequencies. When I played some rock music at higher levels I detected a fair bit of bass coloration.

While the music was playing loudly, I placed my hand on the Klipschorn and there was very little vibration. When I placed my hand on the board, it was vibrating like a drum!

I then removed the board and played the same music at the same loud level. The difference was quite marked. No bass coloration at all. I couldn't tell whether the installation of this board had improved low frequency response in this corner.

I'm thinking, I guess, is that if Klipschorns are placed snugly into undamped corners, and loud basey music is often played, some bass coloration may result. If damping or bracing a drywall or plasterboard corner is not an option, then the best solution would be to pull the Klipschorns out from the corner. Bass quality is far more important than bass quantity.

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I don't have K-horns (yet!) but am fairly good woodworker/construction guy. Here's my take on the 'fake' corner horns and vibration.

Those considering that the K-Horn bass bin itself is largely 1/2 plywood, please remember that these are fairly small sections of wood, heavily braced due their proximity to other panels, therefore they do not pick up the large vibrations that your large 'corner' panels will.

THerefore, any fake corner walls MUST be braced or they stand a good chance of introducing sympathetic vibrations of their own. They will become like a drum and vibrate at a given frequency. I heartily agree with INDY in that if you add weird tonalities to your bass in endeavoring to gain more bass, you are doing your K-horns and your ears a disservice. The walls should be AT LEAST as tight and vibration free as a standard wall panel (slightly below Arto's stats) 3/4 plywood, braced either internally or externally with unequally spaced 2x2's should be a reasonable facsimile for most purposes (ie not played a constant KILLER volume)

Of course we've all heard of users who build masonry corner units, etc. But I'm trying to keep the Wife Acceptance Factor in mind here. If the units get too big and ugly, perhaps you should consider selling me your k-horns and purchase LaScalas or Cornwalls instead!

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  • 2 weeks later...

The false corners suggested and built by PWK were built like standard walls, that is with 2/4's and covered in drywayy or plywood. They were free standing and the K-horn was pushed into the corner for a snug fit.

I suppose that someone could build these and fill them with sand in order to provide a solid corner...

I'm preparing to build out my room to Artto's specs hopefully it will come out close to his results.

Artto, do you have any documents on your building techniques or are they just posted here on many threads?

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