cc1091 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Sorry folks, but I gotta say something: Has anyone else noticed the addition of several models to the Reference line that one might normally associate with other, less expensive lines? There seems to be a trend here that I am not liking. You had better buy that Heritage line speaker while its still available. Who knows, they may start adding extra models there too. Or maybe they will just combine the Synergy and Reference line and call it the Mitigation Line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundthought Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I hear what your saying. It appears sort of scandalist, doesn't it? Though...it seems to me that it has to be. I guess, that in order for any corporation to succeed and grow in todays' marketplace, they need a competitive edge. (Thus multi-million dollar advertising campains and glamorized marketing tecniques) Par for the course, I say. Tagging a particular production line as reference or Monitor seems to be all too commercial and common, but if it keeps this great company afloat, then i'm all for it. The company has changed gears, but it still remains...so what are you gonna do? Fred has alot of business sense and his partners have a consistently solid background with decent quarterly profits. Big business on the rise. IMHO, From every manufacture...the "flagship" models seem to offer the most material related expenditures as opposed to their second or third series counterparts.FWIW. (Though that may vary given the advent and implementation of newer, cheaper technology) IMO. Initilizing a custumer base and expanding upon it until the market subsides is the growing trend. I think that is where "milkin' it" and trimmimg production overhead comes into play. Take a good, reasonable afforable production piece and run with it until it turns a bad quarter, then dump it. Granted, that isn't nessisarily any one companys' business model, it sure seems to fit the growing trend from a consumers perspective. Just my 2 1/2 cents. Enjoy your music at whatever cost..... I love my Klipsch! Regards, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gerald Willis Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I'm not sure which particular models you mean, but I'll guess it's that you're talking about speakers like the Reference Satellites. I'm new to the Forum and mostly an Architectural and Pro speaker person here, but Im part of the Reference group for product development, so Id like to know more about what you mean. Is it the price levels that bother you or the performance? Were not happy going into a category unless we feel that we can bring something to the table in better performance than what were going up against. On the Heritage side, I wouldnt worry about that going away. Do you feel that Reference and Synergy are that close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I was bothered at first by klipsch's seemingly deteriorating image, but no longer. The lower end reference line have their place, which seems to be a price bridge between the Synergy and Reference line. Also, it is nice to have the option of getting Reference quality in a smaller package like the RF-15's, though I do not like the RW series at all. Also, I'd bet good money there will not be new speakers introduced to the Heritage series...not anytime soon anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I noticed last weekend in the Utlimate Electronics advertisement that there is a RF-10 series out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 It would be nice if Trey and Andre could close gap between Reference and Synergy, but right now -- the two aren't even in the same league. I think if we look at the word "Reference" in the context of what others are offering at similiar price points where the various Reference speakers land -- then I think "Reference" fits the bill nicely. Go listen to some RSX-4's, and then try to find something that hangs with those for the same amount of money. At any given price point, Reference crushes the competition. There needs to be something for everyone out there, and the different sizes and prices make that possible. I resent the "mass consumer garbarge" label being thrown out here on this board. Especially since it's complete and utter nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Rex Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I haven't heard the difference between the lower end Reference and the Synergy series. I would assume there is a noticable difference but I obviously don't know for sure. My first thoughts are theat the lower end Reference series is a good thing because it brings the quality reference sound to the masses that either have smaller rooms or smaller budgets. I am thankful that there is a RC-3 line because that seems to fit into my budget and will probably be enough for my modest home for years to come. Take care, D-Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I'm with CrossoverMan. I had never bothered auditioning any of the entry-level products in a retail setting but we did some listening at the Indy gathering this year. At their price points, most if not all klipsch speakers are really superior compared to your other options at those given dollar amounts. In fact I think the "lower" you move on the product chain, the more clear the difference is. I mean this: the promedia ultra 5.1s can fill a decent room with sound. $350.00. Not much else could do what these do for $350. Move up into the higher end Heritage: a pair of khorns cost $7500. Now, Klipsch will be getting my $$ for khorns when I can afford them because that is the sound I prefer, however there are a TON of great (I didn't say better) sounding speakers in the $7500 price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Phillips Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Our Synergy line is designed for customers who desire excellent performance at a value price. Our Reference products make up our premium line, designed and engineered with the most expensive materials for consumers that demand the utmost performance, and are willing to pay a slight premium to achieve that additional performance. Klipsch offers a product line for most, if not all bugets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I don't know what you're trying to prove, say or achieve by starting this thread. Yes, the reference satellites are somewhat different from the other speakers of the reference series in both appearance as well as materials they are constructed out of, and the sound as well. But it seems that you're upset that less expensive models are being added to the reference series, and that just makes no sense. The market in high-price audio is not very large, and it makes a lot of sense for Klipsch to offer superior products at lower prices by making some compromises - in size of drivers when it comes to 25 and 15 models, and in appearance and materials as well, in RSX models. But you know what, these new speakers sound great, and they give a chance for people on a budget, like me, to experience the level of quality audio that we wouldn't otherwise be able to afford. Furthermore, if these products are commercially successful and bring in money to Klipsch, some of this money will undoubtedly be funneled into R&D so that Klipsh's flagship products that are probably expensive enough for your tastes improve as well. P.S. Besides, the word 'reference' is one of the most overused and misused words in the world of audio. All it really means, is a speaker that you judge the quality of others by. So to me, the RSX-4s I were certainly reference speakers, since I judged the quality of other speakers systems by them. Now that I have RF-3IIs they are my reference speakers, since they are currently the best speakers I've heard outside a shop setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Hello: Heritage to me means where a lineage started and continues with each generation. Thus that would apply to the Cornwalls (II.) Reference, definitely an over-used word in the consumer market by any/all companies. But to me Reference as far as Klipsch is concerned, Reference is THE standard for not only Klipsch, but for other speaker companies to try to meet. Reference also means the best in materials used to manufacture those products. No plastic fronts, in a dream world the actual wood, attachments/holders for the grille cloth that do not break easily. There are other things I have noticed in dealer showrooms and in the newer line of speakers I have seen called Reference. Reference is the standard for others to try to meet. It is the bar that will survive. I am curious as to what speakers will still be operational and look as good in ten (10) years - Heritage vs Reference. Though we have come to a throw away society, there are those of us that want lasting quality vs plastic fronts, veneer - whether it be real or vinyl, etc.. Business is business, costs must be controlled. But true business IMHO is looking at a pair or forty (40) year old speakers still sounding sweet as the day they were made. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 All confusion starts with the name " Reference " . Maybe a poor choice by klipsch ? ( you can answer yourelf on that ) . In the Audio world one would articulate the reference meaning as what is used for all else to be measured against . Audio writer / reviewers and such usually build a " reference system " that they know in and out backwards and forwards. Then when inserting a " new " piece of gear to be tested then they have a " REFERENCE " point to start from . Reference should be the more highend gear in order to extract the faults of lower quality components. Does the RF series fit into that group ? well , you guys that own it will have to answer that yourselves . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 ---------------- On 7/2/2004 3:56:37 PM dodger wrote: I am curious as to what speakers will still be operational and look as good in ten (10) years - Heritage vs Reference. Though we have come to a throw away society, there are those of us that want lasting quality vs plastic fronts, veneer - whether it be real or vinyl, etc.. ---------------- I am pretty sure my RF-7s will be pumping out the goods just as well in ten years as they are now. The plastic fronts can look "cheesy" to some, but from what I saw at the Klipsch gathering, that plastic they use on those things did not feel "cheap" at all. Also, it was damn near impossible to break. During the Klipsch gathering, Trey let me beatup a speaker with a sledgehammer (I know, it was almost sacri-religous! I told him he should've replaced the "Klipsch" logo with a "Bose" logo ). I had to really whail on that thing to break the plastic front (and those of you that seen me there, knows that I am a pretty big guy). It took me two good full swings before I broke the horn on that thing. Even the vinyl covering they use. I found some sample material laying around in one of the workshops. The material had some "heft" and thickness to it. It actually felt like some quality material in my hands. It is not anything like that self-adhesive stuff you can buy to wrap cardboard boxes with. From what I saw, these are still very quality speakers using quality materials. I would imagine the plastic is also much easier to work with, especially if they want to more modern, sleeker, contemporay looks that seems to be selling these days. Also, with the newer versions of the reference speakers, (The Rx-x5 designations), they seemed to have solved the issue with flimsy grills. I'll admit that is one of the grips I got with my RF-7s. Geez, after spending two grand on those things, I'd expect a grill that didn't break the first time I took it off to inspect the drivers. Also, the newer drivers do seem to be more durable in that they don't dent or crease as easily as the older ones did. I don't think Klipsch is cheaping anything at all, but instead catering to a market that expects the more modern and sleeker looks as well as attempting to appeal to more budgets. I fully agree that they should keep thier heritage line and they indicate they will. I would like to eventually get a pair of K-horns myself, but at the same time, they do need to keep up with what the current market expects in terms of looks and price, but still offer the awesome performance these speakers deliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 ---------------- On 7/2/2004 4:21:24 PM Dale W wrote: Does the RF series fit into that group ? well , you guys that own it will have to answer that yourselves . ---------------- Dale posted this while I was posting my other post. I'll just reply in a seperate posting. Well, I have the full Reference 7 series setup at home. To me, it truly is "my" reference setup by which I compare other components with. I've compared several other brands of speakers, including speakers in Klipsch's other lines with what I got at home. In my own opinion, I think it hangs quite well with other speakers, including those that cost more. For example, I have the B&K Reference (there's that word again ) 200.7 amplifier. I've listened to some Martin-Logan Ascent speakers hooked up to that same amp that cost nearly $4K/pair. I thought the RF-7s had much better clarity, detail, and dynamics than the Martin-Logans. Even compared to some of the Heritage speakers I've listened to in Indy. To be honost, I was jonesing for a pair of LaScala's but after hearing them in Indy, I found I actually prefered the sound of my RF-7s instead. It seemed that m00n had that same experience when he tried a pair of Belle Klipsch speakers a year or so ago, if memory recalls. However, I do want to eventually get a pair of K-horns, and I know that I can fit a pair in the room I got down in the basement. To answer your question, to me, the RF's are indeed a "Reference" system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 I'm totally confused by this post,at x dollars Klipsch is saying their speakers are what you would judge others by,whats wrong with that?I could have Khorns or pretty much any speaker I want for that matter,I prefer my cherry RF7s.I can't figure out why someone thinks if Klipsch makes a speaker thats not a decades old design they're goin down the drain,cause they're sellin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Fish---I don't think anyone's saying that Klipsch is going down the drain, financially. But listen, you gotta understand that as horn speakers go the RFs are severely compromised and many hornys consider them a step-down from the previous KLF and CF series speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 ---------------- On 7/2/2004 5:57:27 PM TBrennan wrote: But listen, you gotta understand that as horn speakers go the RFs are severely compromised and many hornys consider them a step-down from the previous KLF and CF series speakers. ---------------- I may not be experienced as some of the "old-timers" on here when it comes to horns, but the RF-7s sure as heck did not sound compromised to me. But, then again, what the heck do I know? I am only a 34 year-old software engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Tom,I hear ya,and I have no problem with your statement.But listen,you gotta understand I've owned speakers that cost more than my 7's but did not give me as much pleasure.Just as no amp,pre etc..can meet everyones desire so goes speakers.Are the 7's a compromise?you and I both know they are,but hey,for footprint,sound and style you don't get much more(new)for 1.5k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Fish---I understand you, and Steve too. It's just some of us old-time horn enthusiasts get set in our ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted July 2, 2004 Share Posted July 2, 2004 Tom,I guess I can't fault any old-time hornys for not wanting some of the newer less horny speakers to stray to far from their strengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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