Olorin Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 It's hard to do everything right, and a lot of ordinary people wind up just as divorced as the high-achievers of the world. I would be cautious about characterizing what happened as "sacrificing his marriage," unless of course you happen to be close enough to the situation to have a personal understanding of it. As for the doping allegations, well, it's one thing to allege, and it's another thing to prove. A long, consecutive string of negative tests is somewhat telling, no? Vive le Tour! Vive Lance Armstrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan krajewski Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 ----------------On 7/25/2004 1:05:24 PM stan krajewski wrote: With all the steriods, drugs and plain old overabundance of s???heads in the sports world - this guy is probably one of the few true sports heroes of our time. A bout with cancer, trained like a dog and persisted to the nth degree. We can all learn from Lance Armstrong or we can sit on our couches guzzling beers and cursing the world. Its our choice. Thank you Lance! ---------------- Unfortunately the beer guzzling and grousing seem to prevail. Ever wonder why other people are successful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 i agree... it is VERY HARD to do everything right. afterall, like all of us - lance is still only human. ... man i sound just like the agent on matrix reloaded... hehehehe . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 "lance is still only human." Have you see the "Bourne Supremacy"? If you think that is fiction, then Lance doesn't exist! OTOH, if you think Lance is "clean", then you're living in a dream world. When you can't see the guts, appearance can be deceiving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinipig523 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 that just wooshed right over my head... i should watch bourne soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 26, 2004 Author Share Posted July 26, 2004 ---------------- On 7/26/2004 1:49:50 PM neo33 wrote: OTOH, if you think Lance is "clean", then you're living in a dream world. When you can't see the guts, appearance can be deceiving! ---------------- I see. Even though Lance is probably the most tested athlete in the history of the world, and has never failed a drug test, you know better. Sounds to me like you just can't handle the truth, that the guy has all that it takes to be a superb athlete: The physical strength and build, the passion, the determination, and that he works harder than anyone else in the sport. So, Neo, let's have your evidence that Lance is not "clean." What is the basis for your slander other than envy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Lance is my hero. I used to cycle a lot (35-45 miles 3 or more times per week and 100+miler once a month), and intend to start doing so again in the near future as I'll have to build up to this slowly. I was recently diagnosed with heart disease (flabby heart), but my initial impression is that my family practice doctor diagnosed this improperly and its not as bad as he led me to believe. The cardiologist's initial impression seems to support this as well. In any case, although Lance is much younger than I, after what he's been through, if he can do it, so can I! At this age I know I'll never be in the shape I once was but he sure gives me the inspiration to beat this thing as much as possible. And I will! Thank you Lance for going where no man has gone before. I loved that arial scene on the approach to Paris of the US team riding in a "V" formation with Armstrong at the front, leading the rest of the cyclists. After he won I put out my American Flag and hung a yellow jersey on the flag post. Six of the top ten places were filled by Americans. Way to go guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 "Even though Lance is probably the most tested athlete in the history of the world, and has never failed a drug test" Are you sure you see EVERY single test results? What if there is a "secret" report stash away somewhere? What about the "agreement" that some "discrepancies" will not be published? Remember the "agreements", for those baseball players, for "voluntary" drug tests not to be published? Assume that you passed all of the hearing tests imaginable that can be performed on your ears and hearing, can you prove that you have good hearing because your ear doctor said you have normal hearing? It's all relative, Paul! The world is full of contradiction isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Speculation about the existence of a secret report is not evidence. It's conspiracy theory. Besides, good hearing (as you present it) makes a poor analogy to drug use. "Good hearing" is a statistical range. You can prove that a person's hearing is inside or outside a statistically normal range. This kind of hearing has no relationship to a person's ability to appreciate music until a person's hearing drops to the low end of the scale. Even then, it would be difficult to argue convincingly that Beethoven had no appreciation for music. The drug test results we're talking about here have two values -- positive and negative. It's a boolean. Either there is evidence of use of a banned substance, or there is not. If you have evidence, I'm sure a lot of people are interested. If you don't have evidence, you don't have anything worth talking about. Here's one for you. I can say "Neo doesn't want his identity revealed. Therefore he is Jimmy Hoffa." Is it true until you prove it isn't, is it untrue until I prove it is, or is it worthless speculation until there is evidence that points one way or another? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 "The drug test results we're talking about here have two values -- positive and negative." We live in a relative world. There is no such thing as "absolute". The "grey" area is open for interpretation! Mistakes will be made no matter what the result will be! "Therefore he is Jimmy Hoffa." Call me anything you want since you're still in "my" Matrix. Though, I must say that judging on your logic, your ancient thinking has not progress much for a thousand year-old wizard. I suppose, brain cells deterioration is still a disease that comes of ages. And didn't someone once said "the older you are, the wiser you get?" Look can be deceiving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Ad hominem, foul. What gray area? One negative is a result. Three is a trend. Ten is a pattern. A hundred is basis for a conclusion. All of this assumes, of course, that a person makes his judgments on the basis of evidence rather than simply believing what one wants to. Neo, there's nobody in your Matrix but you. It's pretty clear that you live in a world of one. You're an existentialist, except that you take no responsibility for the world you create. I urge you to go enjoy yourself with yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Neo, once again you make me wonder if you enjoy being the fly trapped in the tree sap twenty million years ago. In the six TDFs Lance has won, he was tested a minimum of 80 times. What magic did he perform to trick the atomic mass spectrography analysis that only you know about? I get to play with these bad boys every other month, and you are not going to fool them too long. The testing companies got smart, and also have learned to test for pre and post cursors for the metabolic steroids, stimulants, VOX agents, and all the oolie tricks riders have been known to do. The proof is in the pudding. Every year riders (and sometimes teams) get caught, and booted from the Tour. The French would be happy as pigs in sheet to have the pleasure of booting Lance, instead of the other way around. Being a spirited gadfly is one thing, but you are paddlin' up the piss the wrong way one this one... PS - they also do blood, fecal, and nasal/oral sampling as well. Besides having to pedal like a dog for three weeks, they get jabbed, prodded, poked and lubed to ensure there is no cheating. Better to argue about baseball, or track and field on this subject if you want to slam atheletes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 If we're so good with all of the testings and experiments, wouldn't AIDS be cure by now? We're only "HUMANS" after all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 "What gray area?" Can you say with ABSOLUTE certainty that these tests are NEVER EVER wrong? What constitute the validity of these tests? Just because a whole bunch of people got together and decided that they are so, they must be valid? And so it goes, you are either right or you are wrong and there is no in between because WE said so? "there's nobody in your Matrix but you." Then why did you response to my post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 You cross over into my world from time to time. I'll work harder on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozz Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 ---------------- On 7/26/2004 12:08:25 AM pinipig523 wrote: i dont understand how people can lose respect for someone if they divorce.... thats his decision. his personal life is not in question here - he won 6.... thats all i care about. 50% of marriages end in divorce, so it aint surprising. better question, if u had a divorce, would u lose respect towards yourself? another thing, it seems that everyone is so quick to blame someone for "faults" they may have. "i lost respect for him because he divorced his wife." how about the fact that he is raising 22,000,000 for cancer research this year? does anyone ever talk about that? better yet, does anyone here do anything this great for their community? and yet, conviction and judgement is such a luxury for those of us in the sidelines. ---------------- I did'ent lose respect for Lance, I mountain bike ( in real mountains) about 400 miles a month and full well know the sacrafice it takes to gain 1% of the conditioning that lance has reached. Lance is the best cyclist on earth, no doubt about it. I believe that at this level of compition or any level of compition it's not only important to just train hard but to set the standard as well in all aspects of your life. Cycling is not ordained by God but marraige is and I would think that one who trained so hard to be a winner would have given more effort in his marriage. While its true we do not know the details of his decision I find it sad that his divorce is justified by the fact that "50% of marriages end in divorce, so it aint surprising". This attitude concerning divorce is evidence of the results of this 50% number. While it's true that Lance has helped greatly with cancer research(my mother just beat cancer)it's not true that this accomplishment somehow relieves him of his duty to his family. Like I said, I know not the circumstances surrounding his break-up but to shack up with sheryl crow(he's not married to her) so quickly say's alot about where his heart may be. I realize that this is not a perfect world and sin is a desease that afflicks us all, life can be a struggle at times, but for a guy with such God given talents and in a time when wrong seems to be right and right wrong, it's just to bad his victory's come with baggage. After all, it was Lance who put himself out there, he made a decsion in the public eye and now it's public, he left his wife or she left him, it dos'ent matter who left who, what matters is that it's finished and it appears to at least some of us that cycling, and living with sheryl crow out of wedlock takes a front seat to his marriage. I mean, it was'ent like he hooked up with crow after his divorce was put to bed. On the contrary, she was on his arm before the ink was dry so that to me sounds as though it was in the works and not somethng that befell him. Would Lance have 5 tour DE Lances victory's if he would have split after the first one with his wife? Im sure the support she gave him helped him to be the great cyclist he is. Now only to shack up with a woman. I was not judging and convicting him, I was just sad to see such a great accomplishment for an American Hero degraded somewhat by his personel choice of divorce. And yes, whatever the circumstances would be surrounding a divorce for myself, it would always be a point of sorrow and failure on my account. If I so quickly ran to a greener pasture, than more so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 A tremendous accomplishment particularly given his past health problems. As to the doping issue.........If he has never been caught doping... Could it possibly be that he doersn't use performance enhancing drugs? --- Why is it unreasonable to say that the man should be considered innocent until proven guilty ! FWIW that guy could ride circles around most cyclists on a steep uphill grade at 40 degrees Celsus with one leg in a cast and with his haemmoroids playing hell with him! You conspiracy theorists are a complete PITA.For conspiracy freaks nothing can ever be explained by reference to observed fact.......every suprising event must be the result of delving into the dark side......Get a life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 26, 2004 Share Posted July 26, 2004 Dave, Are you saying there's something in his pudding? I see a Jello sponsorship in the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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