cc1091 Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 This thread is in response to my feeling that the new RF-5 (and presumably the RF-7) brings the Reference series line of speakers (and Klipsch as a whole) a step closer to being just another speaker company. I'm wondering what the average Klipsch bulletin board user is looking for in a speaker. Please let us all know if there are characteristics of other speaker manufacturers speakers that you enjoy. Here is what I'm looking for: I'm looking for a new Klipsch speaker that can compete with the Vandersteens, Wilson Audios, and Magnepans of the world, but retains that high impact Klipsch sound (as with the Klipschorn). I'm looking for a speaker that is worthy of bing a new addition to the Heritage line. I would also like to hear the texture in the music like a B&W speaker presents. I want the ability to reach down into the bass end of the music. I want the extreme treble frequencies to be reproduced with delicasy when the music calls for that. I will always like the way that Klippsch speakers make your room sound like the performance hall instead of some plane of sound laid out in one dimension in front of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 Frankly, having owned Heresy's (currently), Cornwalls, LaScala's and Klipschorns, I did not even consider a non-Heritage Klipsch speaker due to their lack of a midrange horn. I came back to Klipsch after about 5 years of trying other brands. I believe that it is the horns that make Klipsch special. Handing over to a horn at 2000 hz or so, as is done with all of the current models I believe, makes too much of the audible range "just another speaker" as far as I am concerned. My experience with my new Heresy's confirms this for me. They have most (if not all) of the mid range and tweeter magic that the other Heritage speakers had, while the advent of quality subwoofers allows me to have bass that is definitely deeper, and subjectively about equal, to the K-horns ( at "normal" listening levels). Besides, in my set up, the bass is rolled off at 80hz anyway. And the fact that the Heresy's do not have to be placed in the corners (as with the K-horns) actually gives them the edge in certain instances as far as imaging is concerned. Obviously, the Heresy's cannot play as loud as the other Heritage speakers. But I listen at levels of 75-85 db most of the time, so even the Heresy's (and my subs)operate well below their maximum capabilities. Sorry about the length. Gee, did I answer the question? ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 quote: Originally posted by cc1091: I'm looking for a new Klipsch speaker that can compete with the Vandersteens, Wilson Audios, and Magnepans of the world, but retains that high impact Klipsch sound (as with the Klipschorn). I'm looking for a speaker that is worthy of bing a new addition to the Heritage line. I would also like to hear the texture in the music like a B&W speaker presents. I want the ability to reach down into the bass end of the music. I want the extreme treble frequencies to be reproduced with delicasy when the music calls for that. I will always like the way that Klippsch speakers make your room sound like the performance hall instead of some plane of sound laid out in one dimension in front of you. I suspect your wish will be grantd by the Jubilee genie, when it gets into production (and I don't mean the pro Jubilee)!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 I want to see a high end, gorgous model to compete with the Advantguarde Duos - something that will make audio snobs notice becuase of their looks and price tag and will put the market leader of horns at the top of the audio snob heap, smothing along the lines of a professional movie theater model, downsized for the average living room might a cool idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Phillips Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 I'll agree with Kevin. But I feel Klipsch is competing with other speaker manufacturers and doing a great job.The list you gave is an expensive power hungery lot.B&W doesn't do it for me,looks or sound.But that's my ear. Maybe it's not to everyones liking,but hey some like Bose.Sorry,another thread. Magneplanar MG3.6/R,34-40K,$3800,but an spl of 86,needs a bit of power don't you think.The whole line does.Wilson?Priced one lately?Vandersteens?Priced in the same ball park as Klipsch,still needs a bit of power.I'll bet they sound wonderfull. They are all in their own class. Klipsch Heritage,no improvement needed,well except to bring the Cornwall back. Me,except that I want a pair of Cornwalls,am very happy with my Klipsch stuff. I have listened to the RF-5 at a dealer.I liked the sound,would love to have been able to rearrange them.They weren't where they would have sounded their best,at all.Got a chance to audition the RF-7,RC-7,RS-7s with the RSW-15 at CES.Out in the open like that,well,funny thing,no one was even at the B&W booth around the corner. Wait till the Jubilee gets here. These are my opinions,not meant to be anything but that. ------------------ Main HT:'77 Klipschorns w/ALKs, '75 Heresy center,modified with,K-Horn sqauwker & AA network. KSP-S6 at sides 2 KSP-S6's rear. Denon AVR-3801 2 Denon POA-2800 200X2 1 driving the Horns 1 driving the bi-wired Heresy center. 2 DIY 12"4ohm subs,Carver A500x 400 watts per ch.feed. 1 12" powered sub(behind the couch)feed from the surrounds pre-outs. Sony DVP-C650D. Dishnetwork Echostar 4700 w/DD JVC S7600U S-VHS Pioneer CDL-D501 laser Music in "Direct"only! DH Labs T-14 speaker wire to the front 3. Room size;15.5 X 25' opening into dining room. Old RCA 52"RPTV w/matching cabinets Bed room HT: KSB 2.1 mains,SC-1,SS-1's,2 SW 8 II subs. 2 Heresy's for music. Denon AVR-2800, Dishnetwork,Sony SLV-975HF VCR,Panasonic DVD-RV31. 27"RCA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M6 Driver Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 since I have not heard the Klipsch Horn I would like to hear something to means of the Legacy Focus so far that was quite an amazing speaker! ------------------ Thanks J KLF 30 Mains C7 Center 8.5 rears Yamaha RX-V995 Toshiba SD-1600 DVD Pioneer CLD-S201 LD Pioneer PD-M53 CD Sony 32 inch TV no subs till house built Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 Legacy Focus was the speaker I bought to replace my K-horns. It is indeed an excellent speaker. However, neither the Focus, or any other speakers I have owned or heard, have made me want to listen to music like the various Klipsch Heritage speakers I have owned. I certainly cannot explain this, but that is what it is all about as far as I am concerned. And that is why I have come back to Klipsch. The fact that I can achieve that feeling with Heresy's and subs is, I think, a testament to the importance of the midrange and tweeter horn combination, as well as how far quality subwoofer bass reproduction has come in the past 5 years. My $500 HSU VTF-2's do a far better job than the SW-15 series 2 that I owned and paid $1500 for back in the mid 90's. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 Klipsch is buiding what I'm looking for. That's why I buy them. I will never spend $3,000 for a single speaker neither will 90% of speaker buyers. Klipsch needs the "just another speaker" lines to support their high end lines. For the most part I feel Klipsch alredy does what You are looking for, far better than any other brand. People hearing my system are blown away. When they ask "what kind of speakers are those" and I say "Klipsch", they say they have never heard of Klipsch. That tells me that my Klipsch speakers are "NOT just another speaker". Klipsch is very,very far from being "just another speaker company". A perfect example of that is this Forum. Just my opinion ------------------ Home Theater: Technics SA-1040DX Klipsch KG 3.5 Fronts Klipsch SF1 Fronts (on B switch) Klipsch KSW12 Sub. (2) Klipsch SC1 Center Klipsch SF1 Rears Panasonic RV31 DVD Vintage Listening Room: Technics SA-5370 Electro Voice Coronet Speakers Pioneer Turntable model PL-150-II Shure M70EJ Cartridge Technics Cassette Deck model 631 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 22, 2001 Share Posted July 22, 2001 I have been in this hobby for over 30 years. In that time I have owned speakers made by Technics, Ohm, Polk, Klipsch, M&K, B&W, Magnepan, Boston Acoustics, Legacy, Bose and probably some others. Other than the Technics and the Bose, none of my friends had ever heard of any of the others until I purchased them. And just about everyone told me that all of the speakers sounded great, including the Bose. My point is not that the non-Heritage Klipsch speakers don't sound great. My point is that just because no one you know has heard of them, and that they think they sound great, doesn't make them "special". Heritage series speakers have been relatively unchanged in production, and satisfying discriminating listeners, for decades. This point alone does make the Heritage series unique and special, IMHO. I think this speaks to the inherent "rightness" of their sound. On the other hand, Klipsch seems to have to "upgrade" the tweeter horn only models quite frequently, just like all other speaker companies. Please do not take this the wrong way. I am glad that Klipsch is successful and that their speakers have gained a wider audience. I would certainly recommend the non-Heritage models to my friends. I do believe, however, that for whatever reason, Klipsch is leaving behind the "Heritage" that they built their foundation on by abandoning the fully horn loaded, compression driver theory of design. It is my understanding that the Heresy was named as such because the acoustic suspension woofer used in it's design was "heresy" to this premise. So I would think that dropping the mid range horn, especially for the flagship lines, would be an even greater heresy. Sorry again for the length. And remember, these are just my opinions, and I hope I haven't offended all of the "tweeter horn only" Klipsch owners. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 Love these comments and welcome more! I own some of the brands named as well as Klipsch and can tell you it's a pretty interesting side by side comparison. Though you won't ever see/hear Klipsch side by side with the vaunted audiophile brands. Nope, even when all Klipsch produced was Heritage, we still weren't considered "high end". Oh well. We still please music lovers. When you design your 'dream Klipsch' please name the price you are willing to pay. Can we make a speaker to compete with Avantgarde? Sure - already do in some respects. Wilson, Van der Steen, B&W, Thiele? Yes to those also even with the beautiful appearance mentioned above. Now, how much you willing to spend to get all that and a bag-o-chips? Sometimes it seems members here feel that newer Klipsch models have crowded out the Heritage series. That just is not the case. Klipsch has certainly focused on products that have opportunity to be successful in the market. We would never claim otherwise. Heritage will be back and will live on. Other models will continue to come from Hope as well. As a business, Klipsch will respond to market demand. Now, everybody go to your nearest dealer and start demanding Klipschorns, Belles and La Scalas. Once they order in huge numbers, we can open a whole new factory for everything else and concentrage on Heritage at the Hope plant. We would be oh so happy to have that happen. It may not always seem like it, but the posts here give Klipsch the ammo we need to convince dealers to carry a broader range of our products. Thanks for all the passion you all display here. It is a treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 I think klipsch discontinuing the rp-3&5 shows that they are more of a high end audio company. They accepted the fact that a set of their rf-3, rf-5, 7 or about any larger speaker they make or made teamed with a good high quality, well positioned seperate powered sub like a Paradigm pw2200, velodyne CT-150, or possibly their new RSW will blow the ba**s off a charging RP-3 at 100 yds! ------------------ go forth & hump the world This message has been edited by forresthump on 07-23-2001 at 09:01 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshT Posted July 23, 2001 Share Posted July 23, 2001 Hooray BobG, I know you have made these points before, but they are excellent and needed to be reiterated. Can I remind people that Klipsch has always been criticised by the high-end gang? "They make your ears bleed," etc., etc. And look at the endless tweeking that Heritage owners do. There are famous tweeks here and at AudioAsylum that get passed back and forth, from the Heresy to the Klipschorn. Cross-overs, bracing, horn treatments, etc., etc., etc. One of the wonderful things about Klipsch is that they have always been a GREAT VALUE. It may be the the RF-7 is a disappointment. I DON'T KNOW YET -- HAVEN'T HEARD THEM. But I refuse to criticise a two way speaker based on philosophy and dogma. For crying out load, PWK has always wanted to achieve a two way, full range, corner horn! I will post MY impressions of the RF-7 when I hear them hooked up to decent equipment. And I say, good riddance to the powered tower!! It's not a TRUE three way design anyway, and the cross over to the horn is high in the frequency response, so what's the beef with the RF-7? Sheeesh. Now, BobG, please, please, please reconsider dropping that beautiful Mahogany. I know you suggested it in the first place. How dare your colleagues challenge your taste?! And bring back walnut! Sorry, I had to get some digs in myself. --JoshT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc1091 Posted July 23, 2001 Author Share Posted July 23, 2001 BobG - Thanks for correcting my spelling (and perhaps diction too) yet again (Van der Steen). Its good to hear from you in this post. Avantgarde? I haven't heard any of them yet either, but I can't imagine that they have anything that the K-horn doesn't already have, except for a little less kick in the guts, but deeper frequency response on the bass end. The attraction of the Magnepan's, Van der Steens, and to a lesser degree B&W is that they do something that no Klipsch speaker has ever done (at least none that I have listened to). They display the texture of the music. Of course, with certain music, and more accurately, certain recordings, the music having texture is not much of a problem. But even for someone like me who does not care much for classical music, hearing the texture of the sound of the bow resonating against a viola string is something incredibly stirring, and something that I have never heard duplicated by a Klipsch speaker. Yes those speakers take juice (even my B&W 602 sounded incredibly unlifelike until I connected a 200 watt amp to them through MIT Terminator2 speaker cables..they wer finally almost Klipsch-like, but with a hint of the high-end B&W sound). BobG also makes a good point that a lot of dealers no longer carry the Heritage series (perhaps a reason why I feel Klipsch is slipping). If I had the room, I would start demanding the heritage series too. Until then, I dream that Klipsch will offer a Heritage quality speaker in a physical package similar to some of their latest offerings, in a price range just beyond the Heresy (something I thought they were trying to do with the Reference series). In the interim, I hope that Klipsch will start demanding that their authorized dealers use proper gague wire to demonstrate Klipsch speakers (at least the Reference and Heritage series) in a decent listening environment. I think they also need to demand that the retailers replace broken speaker grilles on display speakers (my local store has at least three pairs of Klipsch speakers with broken grilles..funny how those Martin-Logans in the other room never seem to suffer similar damage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshT Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 To each his own, but I disagree that B&Ws have more "texture" to their sound than Klipsch. Or, I should at least say, that B&W CDM1SEs hooked up to a Krell KAV300i do not, in my opinion, have more texture than Klipsch KLF20s hooked up to a Sherwood Newcastle pre/pro and Rotel five channel amplifier. I think an accoustic bass sounds awe-inspiringly real, as do drums, on the Klipsch set-up. The B&Ws have a lot of detail, but don't sound more realistic, or textural (if that's a word) to my ears. I also consider the RB5 to be an excellent speaker. For about $650 you get a speaker that is well made and sounds excellent. I understand many prefer it to the Heresy, though I have not A/B compared them. And I bet the build quality is better. I think Klipsch is already doing what you ask of them. To do more would cost more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 I agree Josh T, what is with all the hype over B&W?! I had the chance to listen to a pair of 801's at an audio show in Germany. Right next door was the Klipsch booth, and the sound that came out of them wasn't music, it sounded really bad, noooo, I mean REALLY BAD! In fact I was actually thinking of getting those speakers at one time. Maybe the guy had them wired up wrong(Adcom components), but the distortion was incredible, reminded me of my old Radio Shack speakers, and when he hit that ole volume button, He scared everyone over to the Klipsch and Polk displays! Don't get me wrong, maybe they were bad speakers, and I'm not bashing B&W(more fun doing that to Bose), but I was sure turned off from B&W very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc1091 Posted July 24, 2001 Author Share Posted July 24, 2001 At the risk of turning this into a B&W forum, I would have to say that anyone who cannot hear that these speakers have some very good points to them, are certainly not listening. As for the RB-5 outperforming the Heresy...not a chance. In my opinion, build and sound quality are infinitely better on the Heresy or at least the ones I'm familiar with (its been several years since I've seen them in the stores, so I have to compare with my own 1981 Heresys). Don't get me wrong, the RB-5 is impressive as a bookshelf speaker. Except for the bass sub, it has the same drivers and crossover points as the RP-5 speakers. They just have a totally different sound than a Heresy. Another thing I'd like to bring to this thread is that I have found that I like the sound of dual subwoofers. Until a buddy of mine built two homemade subs (each with two 15" drivers mounted in a plywood cabinet that is very similar to the KPT-MCM Grand sub), I thought that sound below a certain frequency was essentially omnidirectional. Because of this, I thought that the sound of one sub was exactly the same as the sound of two subs. I was wrong. There is nothing like the sound of dual subs. So I would like to add dual subs (integrated, or not) to my list of goals for Klipsch when they design a new speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted July 24, 2001 Share Posted July 24, 2001 cc, klipsch is on the dual subs for ya. it's called the rsw. due out in a couple months. & what you do is buy 2 of them. then trade your RP-3 for a set of rb-5 or rf-3 & i think you'll be astonished ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drobo1 Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 I would like to see Klipsch produce a two way horn speaker over the audible frequency range. A horn loaded bass section up to maybe 150 Hz and then one horn from 150 Hz to 18 K could be one idea. The option to use a crossover or only biamp between the two drivers thus eliminatng crossovers would be interesting. It would need to be of the typical Klipsch Heriage efficiency so as to be driven by low powered SET tube amps. drobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 drobo - Paul and Roy have been toying with just such a project for some time now, called the Jubilee. Not sure of the xover points. If it ever gets to market, I think it will blow your socks off (and a big hole in your wallet), I'm sure! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted July 25, 2001 Share Posted July 25, 2001 quote: Originally posted by cc1091: In the interim, I hope that Klipsch will start demanding that their authorized dealers use proper gague wire to demonstrate Klipsch speakers (at least the Reference and Heritage series) in a decent listening environment. I think they also need to demand that the retailers replace broken speaker grilles on display speakers (my local store has at least three pairs of Klipsch speakers with broken grilles..funny how those Martin-Logans in the other room never seem to suffer similar damage). I've noticed the same thing out here in CA. At the local Good Guys store, a good few of the Klipsch speakers aren't even in working order. NONE of the subs even worked or were even connected properly and the equipment that the ones which did work were connected to was in pretty bad shape. The CD's would constantly seem to change volume dynamically and every few minuted then would even cut out. Not too good of a demo... ------------------ Tim "Nighthawk" Admire Mains: Klipsch KSB 3.1 Rears: Klipsch KSB 1.1 Center: Klipsch KSC-C1 Sub: Yamaha 8" Receiver: Yamaha HTR-5240 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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