Ray Garrison Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 true, the twisting of the signal carrying conductors provides a shielding effect. I was a bit loose with my terminology. What I was trying to point out was that a lot of "RCA" cables are not constructed like coax, where you have a central conductor, an insulator, and an outer sheild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 kenratboy: As usual, there's lot's of good advice from all of the forum members here. Here's my two-cents -> I think we can all agree that there is a lot of Madison Avenue B.S. (advertising hype) out there about wires, cables and connectors. Some of it may even be true. Additionally, it would be pretty ridiculous for us not to admit that some wiring/connection products are obviously better than others. Now, whether that difference is even noticable or not, or if it is worth the extra cost, that is something only the buyer can decide. So much for the, "My cable is better than your cable, etc....blah, blah, blah." arguement. With that said, I needed to run a subwoofer feed cable from my equipment rack, through the ceiling and down the wall to my RSW-15 sub. I determined that the run required a cable at least 25 feet long. So, I went to the audio store where I purchased my Klipsch Reference system and asked them what they had in stock. They had a 25-foot Audioquest Subwoofer Cable in stock for $48 and they said it was sheilded. That's all I needed to know (the brand name meant nothing to me.....the fact that it was 25 feet and "sheilded" did because 25 feet is a long run past power cables and such). I brought it home, hooked it up and no issues in almost two years. I love it. Now, have I insisted on only Audioquest cables ever since? No! I'm more concerned with the wire's integrity and price. Therefore, if I may suggest, I recommend that you make your selection based on whatever best fits within your budget and meets your own quality requirements. I doubt you will be dissatisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted August 11, 2004 Author Share Posted August 11, 2004 Picky: Well said. For my needs (as of now, cheap gear), all I need to use is a good, well-shielded cable. Nothing more. There is not a strand of 'in-the-box' cable in my entire system (I have at the least upgraded them to AR or Dayton brand cables, only a few Monster freebies), nor is there a $80 optical cable. Down the road, I am planning on upgrading to some RF-35's or RF-7's, and I will continue to use my 12 AWG Sound King wire from Parts Express (I have 25' runs, so I used a heavy wire just because), however, I will buy some nice banana or pins for the speakers and receiver end, just to look nice. For me, the only time I would really go all out on a cable would be if I had a REALLY nice TV and a REALLY nice DVD player, and then I would consider getting a more expensive component cable. I work with cables every day, and when you use wierd cables to hook up component, you can have issues. AND: a while back, I had my computer hooked up to my receiver via a cheap 16' 1/8" extender cable (with a 1/8" to dual RCA on the receiver) - I would pick up a Mexican radio station when I listened to my computer. I then bought a cheap, but SHIELDED one from Rat Shack, and the problem went away. I don't know the physics of how the radio station was being picked up, but the new cable SOLVED the problem. To summerize: do NOT go with the cheap, POS cables (so called 'tester cables'), but use the most expensive cables ($100 for a optical cable) at your own decision (I am not to judge how they really affect any but the absolute most hi-end system, if those!), but spending $30 on a good 3' RCA cable is probably not a bad idea, even on cheaper gear. BTW, Monster Video 3 and the $$$THX$$$ component video cables are absolutly beautiful, and pride of ownership is a issue on that stuff, they are cool toys!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Ken: I agree with what you've written above. I think you are using good sense, especially knowing that you are budget-minded. I want you to know that I have in the past had trouble with Radio Shack cables being bad, brand new, right from the store. I bought some 6-ft phono cables (the ones you and millions of others call "RCAs") that looked just fine. Brought them home and hooked them up. Half of them did on work on one conductor or both. There was no physical evidence of this, but it was confirmed when I used my Simpson VOM (test meter) to check their continuity and impedence. I took them back to the store and the guy said no problem and gave me a refund. He went to the trouble to check the others he had on hand and found more bad ones. He said sometimes they are sent a bad batch. I suppose this could happen to many stores, but this wasn't the first time it's happened to me at Radio Shack. All I am saying is that you are paying good money for something you are expecting good performance out of. So, it may be in your best interest to ask them to test the cable in the store before you buy it and bring it home. As long as you pay close attention to what it is you are hooking up and make sure you use the proper cables (that dosen't mean they must cost a lot), you should have little trouble from your system related to the wiring. 12 gauge wires on your speakers is excellent and that's what I use, too. In my opinion, the one cable whose quality matters more than all of the others is the video cable. Especially, if you are using a high-end display. And the reason I feel this way is because the video signal can be interferred with quite easily, so it makes sense to buy a better quality video cable to help avoid noise in your display's picture. And there's really no need to buy one until you are good and ready. And, when you do decide to buy one, it doesn't need to be the most expensive one on the shelf, either! My personal rule of thumb is: the longer the video cable must be, the better the quality of that cable needs to be due to the ncreased need for additional sheilding. Lastly: Always remember - When making cable runs whether it be an audio or video signal cable, to ALWAYS cross power cords and lines at 90 degrees angles (perpendicular) and avoid running them side-by-side (parallel) to the power lines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 ---------------- On 8/11/2004 7:58:41 AM colterphoto1 wrote: ... The only difference is the mechanical build of the cables, ie solid vs stranded conductor, type of shielding, material of non-conductive cable parts. They all carry signal both ways (arrows on a cable- what snake oil!) ... Michael ---------------- Actually, there is a reason for the arrow. If a cable is shielded and the shield is only attached to ONE end of the cable (to avoid ground loops) the best results with the cable is to attach the shielded end to the sending equipment. So there is a reason other than "hype" to have an arrow on the cable. This is comming from someone who FIRMLY BELIEVES that wire is wire, there is no vodo in expensive cables! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRUBE Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Great forum, everyone. But this neophyte needs help!!! My electrician ran a cable for me through the ceiling for my RSW-10 subwoofer to connect to my Denon 3805 receiver in our new basement. But here is the catch: the cable he ran is not an RCA or a normal speaker wire, it is four shielded wires (black, white, green, red)I think that is used for CAT-5 installations. What can I do? The hook up for the RSW-10 has four posts, so I can + -/+ - for those four wires. But the Denon only has a plug for the subwoofer. What would you do if you were me (besides fire the electrician)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmyforte Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 those colors sounds like its a 4wire telephone hookup wire(Cat3). you could terminate that with phono plugs if you wanted to. personally i'd make or go buy a proper cable, tape it to the cat3 and fish it down the wall to your room and throw out the cat3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRUBE Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Thanks. Fishing down the wire will be my preference, if they didn't secure the wires to the beams in the ceiling. I can't believe they used phone cable!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 This reminds me of that Firesign Theater Album: 'Waiting for the Electrician". .....Is my age showing now? DRUBE: Sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope you didn't have to pay the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 No, as long as you "Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the plyers." "Out of the fog, into the smog, ruthlessly (I wonder where Ruth is) relentlessly, at Drucker and 5th he turns right, and 5th and Drucker he turns left, and into a great sandstone building (uff, my nose) . . . he's ready for action (ring) he's ready for (ring) Rick Danger, Third Eye. Brought to you by Loosterns, and that pale stale ale with the foam at the bottom. Smile, Audry Farber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted August 11, 2004 Share Posted August 11, 2004 The trick to attaching the shield only on one end only works if you have 2 conductors inside the shield to carry the signal. Jim N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doudou Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 i understand what you mean. you need something, so you search for it and once you found what you need you buy it.the brand don t matters.i agree. but if one is 10 times more expensive than the other and have the same effect, i bet you will think a little before buying the expansive one. there is also another solution: you can make it. if you do it well it can have the same quality as monster or audioquest stuff for the price of a crapy cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doudou Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 the cat 3 cable have twisted paires. so it s shielded.of course if the cable run next to a power cord for 25meters long, the shield won t help a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 When wiring up XLR-type connectors for professional microphones, a connection is made to the sheild, where it is soldered on one end and left open at the opposite end. The end left open is commonly referred to as "the drain". William F. Gil McDermott: "Shoes for industry!...Shoes for the dead!...Shoes for industry! ....Hi, I'm Joe Beets!" Sincerely, -Valerie Haber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwoods Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Hey thanks Gramas701, yer spelin sutz me gust phien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRUBE Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 Here is the next chapter on my lovely subwoofer issue from last week. The electrician says the wire is a 16/4 speaker wire that works fine for subwoofers (but only if it is a passive subwoofer!!!) The friendly folks at Klipsch (very very helpful by the way) said if I can't fish an RG-6 with RCA heads through the ceiling, here is what to do: At the subwoofer: Twist the wires into pairs and connect. At the receiver: Use two banana plugs and connect the same wires into my main Left and Right speakers. Klipsch said it may affect my LFE-only effect, but performance will be okay. Thank you Klipsch for your guidance. Anyone else care to weigh in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantfmly Posted August 20, 2004 Share Posted August 20, 2004 I believe that wire is not wire. But i also believe lots of $$$$ does not necesarily mean that it is better. I have found much better alternatives to monster that are much cheaper and have drasticly improved my sound, both with speaker wire and interconnects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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