paulaelliott Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 So far, I have Klipsch SB-3s on 21" stands with matching center and surrounds....These are driven by an Audiosource Amp3 150wpc amp, which is driven by a Sony STR-V333ES av receiver. DVD/CD player is a Sony DVP-660. Sub is Sony SAWM40. Stock powercord, Monster interconnects. If I had up to $1000 to spend at this point, which of these components would you upgrade for the biggest sonic difference? Adding the Audiosource Amp3 driven by the preouts of the ES receiver has made the biggest difference so far, and it makes the SB-3s sound truely incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider124 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Is that a 5-channel amp? If so, you should consider replacing the Sony Receiver with a true Preamp/Processor. I think Outlaw Audio has one in the works, should be pretty good and will go for about $800, I think. Charlie ------------------ "What's that noise?" "It's the carpet, it kinda mutes the speakers." "No, it sounded more like the chandalier falling." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted July 27, 2001 Author Share Posted July 27, 2001 No Spider, its a 2 channel amp...The other channels, ie, cntr, surrounds, and sub are still driven by receiver....The reason I like using the receiver as preamp is first, its got an analog direct mode...Meaning, the signal is converted once from digital to analog in the CD player, and it stays in that mode til it hits the speakers....Totally bypassing the entire digital circuitry...Which gives me a cleaner signal than Id get in most aV receivers with preouts. However, if I do want to apply some digital processing, then I also have the CD player wired to the receiver with an optical connection, so that I have the option of using either analog direct or any soundmode I like...The receiver doubles as a dsp, if I dont want to use Analog Direct on a given recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 If I had $1000 to blow, I'd think about getting some KLF-30's on clearance off the Internet. Or some used speakers out of the Heritage line (if I may also stretch Heritage to include Forte/Chorus/Quartet). A change like that will bring the biggest audible bang for the buck, IMHO! If space is a problem, maybe the RB-5. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted July 27, 2001 Author Share Posted July 27, 2001 see Doug, this is where I'm having one of my bigger problems....I can see the KLF speakers as an upgrade...And it doesnt even have to be the 30s...But, I would probably go for the RF-3s instead...The KLF30s are pretty intimidating speakers for a 1 bedroom hirise condo! But, I'm wondering about your RB-5 recommendation....The question is, how big a difference is their really between the Synergy speakers and the Reference speakers...Specs wise, the SB3 and the RB5 are almost identical. If you did a blind test between the two, I think you'd be hard pressed to continually pick one over the other. I may be wrong, but I'd be surprised. Regardless, the msg seems to be that, given my current system, the biggest single improvement would be in the area of the speakers...Which on the one hand, seems obvious, but on the other, seems confusing...For, I really like the way my SB-3s sound. You should hear how they picked up when I added the external amp! I dont know...If adding big, 90 lb towers is the next logical move, maybe I should wait til I get into a bigger residence...Listening room now is about 12 X 26, and my HT/Audio is located along one of the long walls and, because the room is only about 12' wide, I have to sit within about 8' of the speakers, triangulated between them. Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 As I read somewhere else, nothing succeeds like excess! I have Chorus speakers (98lbs) in my 10x11 listening/HT room. Granted, not the ideal setting, but it sure sounds nice. I hear what you are saying. I just tossed out the KLF-30 idea 'cause they are going cheap now, and it would be a great bargain to have them. Building for the future, you could say, yet you COULD use them now with discretion. Have you a/b compared the SB-3 and RB-5? If not, I'd go listen to the RB-5 compared to your SB-3. The SB-3 is nice, but the specs don't tell the whole story, as you know. And, actually, as I read the specs, they are quite different from the RB-5 when you look at crossover freqs, materials, horn size, speaker size. My daughter's Boston Acoustic car speakers are rated similarly to your SB-3s as far as freq response goes, but I KNOW your SB-3s would romp all over hers for sound quality. With $1000, I bet you could get the RF-3/RB-5 and a new matching center... Keep the Synergy system for another room, or turn a friend on to the great sound of Klipsch! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted July 27, 2001 Author Share Posted July 27, 2001 Hey Doug, If you havent seen it yet, get over to Ubid.com....KLF-30 for, are you ready, $772 FOR THE PAIR! Sheez, I'm sooooo tempted...Even if they are too big...so what....What a price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Now you're talking!! Go, man, go! Remember shipping, though, is pretty high with UBID and KLF-30s. Do the math first!!! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 IMHO, speakers are the logical place to spend the upgrade money. BUT, if after auditioning some speakers you do not feel the need to change your speakers (and by the way, it is perfectly acceptable to like what you have), then spend the money on more music! Then try some changes in your speaker placement to see if you can make any improvements that way. The last thing I would do is spend the money on "upgrading" your electronics. It has been my experience that upgrading properly functioning electronics brings about the least amount of improvement (if any), and should only be looked at when you are certain you have optimized your speakers, and their placement in the room. I hope this helps. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted July 27, 2001 Author Share Posted July 27, 2001 How bout this...I dont want to open a can of worms or anything, but, I've heard Speakers first, then maybe electronics....But, what of those people who say you can get noticable and signficant improvement by replacing your stock, regular old AC power cable with one of those fancy, $100+ ones...Like the Lat AC-2? Has anybody reading this thread actually made noticable improvement this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 I would have to agree with most here in citing the speakers as the most beneficial improvement you could make. On the other hand I was struck be your reply saying you like the way they sound so lets reverse the question. Why do you want to upgrade? What dont you like about your system? What's missing? Answer that and we can advise properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted July 27, 2001 Author Share Posted July 27, 2001 Ah, Max, true, that IS the question I should be asking myself....However, like all audiophiles, or those aspiring along those lines, even though we may not be able to put our finger on what specifically we dont like about our system, or wish were better, that doesnt stop us from that queasy, uneasy feeling that 'I bet it can be even better'! How? I dont know...But, I just bet that full towers like the RF-3, or 5, or any of the KLF towers would sound better than my SB3s, even though the SB-3s sound incredibly clear, detailed, and punchy (when they should be :-) )...I guess at this point, the only way to proceed would be to go through the work involved with schlepping a pair of these 200 lb towers home, and auditioning them next to my monitors....Unfortunately, the only real way to do that is to find a hi end dealer who handles the line, because usually, over the net where prices are good, unless their damaged, you buy em, you own em.... thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Paul, you have "upgradeitis", a very expensive disease to treat. I have had it for over 30 years, and only lately have tried to get it under control. But I live every day with the knowledge that I can never completely control it. So do anything you can to avoid feeding the disease, because once you do, there is no going back! ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 "But, what of those people who say you can get noticable and signficant improvement by replacing your stock, regular old AC power cable with one of those fancy, $100+ ones...Like the Lat AC-2? " I'm in the "sounds like snake oil" camp with Gil McDermott on this one. However, I confess I've never tried a different power cable. But if you think upgrading electronics produces minimal returns, wait until you see the miniscule returns from changing the power cable. If you're dying to spend $100, buy your sweetheart a gift. If you don't have one, buy some music!! And, Kevin, we have to remember that your comments are coming from a guy with an array of MacIntosh equipment! Yeah, I imagine there aren't many places that improved electronics would affect that setup!!!! DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulaelliott Posted July 27, 2001 Author Share Posted July 27, 2001 Yes Dr. Kevin, you have diagnosed the disease correctly, I'm afraid...The tingling anticipation that grips your sole as you make the last connection...The hyperventilation you struggle to get under control..All of that, and more! But alas, look what the result of your disease is: Klipsch speakers and McIntosh power.....nothing wrong with that...Only question is, did you go right to the Macs, or did you piddle around with lesser alternatives along the way, each time convincing yourself that it would sound just as good.>....and, look at all the money you'd save...Until a few months later, that inevitable 'call of the wild' would once again possess your sole..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USparc Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 quote: Originally posted by paulaelliott: So far, I have Klipsch SB-3s on 21" stands with .... What about 4 RF-3's. To bad the center could not be also an RF-3. Ok the RC-3 does the job nicely. If you have bookshelfs on stands (and you should for sound quality) you can have on the same place floorstanding models. They eventualy take up the same place. This is my kind of thinking .... My room is 13x20 with in each corner an RF-3. Should I upgrade ?? ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Onkyo 676 DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3's Rear: RF-3's Center: RC-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Paul, I have piddled around more than one can imagine. In fact I used to own Klipsch and Mac, sold it all off at various times, for various reasons, and have come back. I am now, however, in what I call my "keeper" mode. With a daughter going to college in a few years I decided that now was the time to purchase the equipment that would last me many years and to get off of the upgrade bandwagon. Frankly Paul (and Dougdrake2) I would be lying if I said that my Mac equipment sounded "better" than much of the less expensive stuff I've owned. But the build quality is very high, it does perform to a very high level, I love the look of the stuff, and for me anyway, there is a pride of ownership that comes with both the Mac and Klipsch Heritage brands. Anyway, good luck to you Paul on your quest. And start looking for a new wallet, your going to wear out the old one in a hurry! ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frantic frank Posted July 27, 2001 Share Posted July 27, 2001 Paul, You didn't mention your speaker wire. The three best tweaks since gender have to be as follows: Multiple individually insulated conductor speaker leads. I am of the opinion that Kimber 8 doubled has no superior. Have you got those speaker stands on spikes? The effect is like having just entered the room where the artists are preforming. Make a sound effort to push the spikes through the carpet and pad to contact the firm flooring. Did you ever play marbles? I have all of my electrorig sitting on 3/4" glass marbles on glass shelves in a cherry Sanus stand (also on spikes). The rubber factory feet with their hollowed centers nicely accommodate the spheres. The effect is like a diode. Vibrations pass from the spheres to the shelves, but not from the shelves to the marbles. All of these tweaks work! Something they all share is "they make the system faster." Bass becomes stecoto accurate, mids are absolutely natural, highs have precision that lingers to disipation. The room is here and now. Simple physics, quality components, choice jams. FranticFrank ------------------ sonic frontiers; line 3se, power 2se. monster 2500 pwr. cntr. marantz sa-1 wire world equinox3 intr. cons. kimber 8 spkr. cons. lascala's sonus stands (2). mothballed;every thing i'm not proud of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJT Posted July 28, 2001 Share Posted July 28, 2001 paulaelliot, Have you considered a subwoofer? It might not be a bad idea, since your running SB-3's and their bottom end is limited. JJT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted July 28, 2001 Share Posted July 28, 2001 I was thinking along the lines of JJT - if you are really happy with the SB-3s, a better sub would provide a major improvement. ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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